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Jan 13, 2024 11:42:47   #
rplain1 Loc: Dayton, Oh.
 
Longshadow wrote:
Nothing to do with overall cost effectiveness??

(Wait until you need a new battery.)


My hybrid came with a lifetime warranty on the battery.

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Jan 13, 2024 11:46:00   #
Chiroman8
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
And where does all that lithium come from? It’s mined from the ground and the photos I’ve seen look like strip mines. In the US those areas would have to be reclaimed. Less likely in third world countries like Bolivia.

No matter how you source energy, there’s going to be environmental consequences, be it solar, wind, oil, coal, nuclear or hydro.


Dear bikinkawboy,

Thay was a good response & for me sums it all up nicely!

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Jan 13, 2024 11:56:27   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
Climate change is real without a doubt. 25,000 years ago I would have been setting under 2 miles of glacial ice (according to scientists). I wonder who caused the first 24,000 years of global warming, wooly mammoths farting?


During the ice age, the average global temperature was 46 degrees. That’s about 9 degrees colder than the start of the 20th century. While it took the last 24,000 years to warm up those 9 degrees, it’s taken only 150 years to warm up another 2 degrees. Global warming wouldn’t be a problem if it rose at a natural rate but now it’s increasing so fast that we and the rest of the plants and animals don’t have time to adapt.

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Jan 13, 2024 12:13:12   #
btbg
 
wildimaginations wrote:
That's funny. There's so much negativity about EV's and yet more fires are created from Hybrid cars. The next one is regular gas cars and followed by EVs which is way at the bottom.

https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/

I currently own a used Tesla Model S since 2017 and the only reason I bought it was the free supercharging. I was able to travel to a lot of places for free and it was very enjoyable and worry free. Yes, the charging part was a downer but I took it as a time to rest and stretch out and enjoy the scenery. As for EV fires, well, they happen but not as often as a gas car or a hybrid.

And since Tesla made the offer, I'm getting my free supercharging transferred from my old Model S to a new Model X. Say what you will but look at the reasons why EVs are getting such a bad press. It's because people don't like change. They want everything to stay the same. So go ahead and enjoy sitting in line waiting to fill up your gas tank at the local Costco filling station. All I do is unplug the my Tesla from home and enjoy my time walking around Costco and eating up all the free samples.

I love it when I tell people that I haven't been to a gas station in 7 years!!!
That's funny. There's so much negativity about EV... (show quote)


Talk about worthless statistics. Basing the number of car fires on sales in a given year is ridiculous. Look at the millions of gas powered cars that are on the road that weren't bought in the researched years. Of course there are more gasoline powered car fires, and most of those are older cars. In order for the statistics to have any meaning they would need to take all of the cars from a given set of years only, and then track the total fires in only that group of cars. Then convert to the number of fires per 100,000.

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Jan 13, 2024 12:28:17   #
druthven
 
fourlocks wrote:
So what's the answer for the car emissions problem? Cars represent the planet's single largest source of greenhouse gas emissions; far more than power plants, arctic methane releases, industrial sources, etc. I don't want to get into an argument about the validity of human contributions to climate change but even the nay sayers admit climate change exists and if we can reduce its effects to leave a viable planet to our grand children, shouldn't we?

In the late 1800's when steam (and even electric) were the chief automobile power sources, gas cars were in the same position as EVs, today. We just need to improve the technology or find a better one. Unfortunately, we can't waste 50 years waiting to see what comes along.
So what's the answer for the car emissions problem... (show quote)


Right now the future seems to be hydrogen.

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Jan 13, 2024 12:31:25   #
BebuLamar
 
Sirsnapalot wrote:
Good luck, there is nothing cheap about them!!


Cars prices have been going up a lot but electrica cars prices have gone down. They were very expensive but now compared to gasoline cars they are not expensive any more.
There are many requirements to have an electric car. You must have a house with garage and a place be able to have a charger installed. You must have another car which is gasoline powered. But I have that. Using the AC doesn't cut down the miles per charge as much as using the heater and since I live in Texas it's not that bad. So yes electric car wasn't affordable to me before but it becoming more and more affordable now with all the bad news.

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Jan 13, 2024 12:37:49   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
wildimaginations wrote:
Now this is interesting. To swap out an engine from a gas car is just as much.


Wow! That is a lot of money! Still, it's nothing compared to $60,000 for a battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=909s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEXieo06ta8&t=696s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P3mnjyBs-w

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Jan 13, 2024 12:40:04   #
DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Boy, there is a lot of bad news online about EVs. Fires are a real problem because they can start spontaneously. One house was destroyed when a Mercedes burned. The car was a loaner from the dealer while her own Mercedes was being serviced. Another house was severely damaged when a Tesla burst into flames. Water is useless for putting out lithium fires. Fire departments use special blankets costing $3k - $5k to smother the fire. They then haul the car away in a procession with police and fire engines. They leave the blanket on for a day or more to keep oxygen from letting the fire restart.

Sales are tanking, with dealers having EVs sit on their lots. Charging away from home typically costs more than filling the tank with gas. When many cars are charging from the same station, the amount of charge going to each car is reduced proportionally. A reported rented an EV to do a story on it. During a long trip, she said she spent more time charging the car than sleeping. The car got more "recharging" than she did. Replacing the battery can cost more than the car - $60,000 for a $55,000 Hyundai. Car makers are starting to produce their own batteries so they won't be at the mercy of battery makers. Still, with a limited supply of lithium, prices will continue rise. Reliability is an issue because the car is basically running on software, and you know how reliable that can be. Repairs can be ridiculously expensive.

I never had any interest in buying an EV, but now I'm dead set against them. Give me gas any day. (Enter a humorous comment here.)

A friend had an EV, but he sold it and bought a pickup truck. He didn't go into details.
Boy, there is a lot of bad news online about EVs. ... (show quote)


Until they can solve the range/charger availability issue, EV's are not for me.

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Jan 13, 2024 12:48:32   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Cars prices have been going up a lot but electrica cars prices have gone down. They were very expensive but now compared to gasoline cars they are not expensive any more.
There are many requirements to have an electric car. You must have a house with garage and a place be able to have a charger installed. You must have another car which is gasoline powered. But I have that. Using the AC doesn't cut down the miles per charge as much as using the heater and since I live in Texas it's not that bad. So yes electric car wasn't affordable to me before but it becoming more and more affordable now with all the bad news.
Cars prices have been going up a lot but electrica... (show quote)


According to online, the prices are dropping because dealers have excess inventory, and the government allowance ended on January 1. They're much heavier that gas cars, so they require larger, more expensive tires.

Need tires for your Tesla? The front and rear tires are different. Adding tax, brings that close to $3,000 for a set of tires - from Tire Rack (free delivery ) Falken would be the cheapest, at $1,250 plus $100 tax.



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Jan 13, 2024 12:59:24   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
We’re in the “early adapter” phase of a new technology, going through all of the pains and setbacks that occur until the technology becomes mainstream (or not).
Hertz just announced selling off 20,000 (of their fleet of 50,000) of their EV’s primarily due to maintenance costs and availability of parts. They estimate maintenance costs alone is double that of a gas vehicle.
In 2022, 60 percent of electricity was generated from coal, natural gas, and petroleum sources. Charging EV’s is fraught with lack of availability of charging stations and long wait times, especially on long car trips.
I’ve read somewhere (don’t know how accurate this is) that cars/trucks only account for 15% of the world’s pollution.
Until alternative sources of generating electricity become more mainstream and the issues mentioned above really get resolved, EV’s will not become the panacea we think it might be. And alternative sources of electricity are also fraught with problems. A friend of mine who’s a Venture Capitalist told me his firm won’t invest in wind farm companies because of the high maintenance costs.
IMHO they’ll iron out all the kinks in about 50 years, so then I’ll buy an EV in my next life.

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Jan 13, 2024 13:12:26   #
Artcameraman Loc: Springfield NH
 
I'm waiting to get a Hydrogen powered vehicle. But that's me. Cheers.

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Jan 13, 2024 13:17:25   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
wildimaginations wrote:
Now this is interesting. To swap out an engine from a gas car is just as much.


Still, after 442K miles, the cost per mile isn’t bad if that was the original engine.

If you buy an EV new and trade it before the battery warranty (7 years?) is up, the depreciation is going to kill you (what’s a 7 year old EV worth with a battery replacement coming up soon?). If you keep it and replace the battery, that cost will kill you. Either way, I it’s pretty hard to make the argument that the savings in gas will be worth it.

And then there’s the little issue of the upgraded electrical generating and infrastructure upgrades to replace the gasoline/diesel energy distribution network considering our electrical grid is barely adequate now. What with vehicle cost, battery cost, depreciation, charging time, limited charging stations, limited range and an inadequate electrical infrastructure, I think it will be a number of decades before EVs replace IC vehicles.

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Jan 13, 2024 13:27:17   #
SpikeW Loc: Butler PA
 
I have never said that there are almost to many people. Cows yes, people no and no too I don't want to leave to soon.

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Jan 13, 2024 13:40:29   #
Miker999
 
I think that maybe in 20-30 years, EVs might be perfected enough to be main stream. It won't be in my auto buying lifetime.

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Jan 13, 2024 13:46:18   #
kufengler Loc: Meridian, Idaho 83646
 
jerryc41 wrote:
According to online, the prices are dropping because dealers have excess inventory, and the government allowance ended on January 1. They're much heavier that gas cars, so they require larger, more expensive tires.

Need tires for your Tesla? The front and rear tires are different. Adding tax, brings that close to $3,000 for a set of tires - from Tire Rack (free delivery ) Falken would be the cheapest, at $1,250 plus $100 tax.
According to online, the prices are dropping becau... (show quote)


The front and rear are different sizes on many cars. My wife's 2007 Mercedes C230 Sport had different sizes.

I found these on Tire Rack: Tesla S vs Mustang Dark Horse.

Also found Test S tires as LOW as Set of 4:$1,250.00
and Mustang tires as HIGH as Set of 4:$2,319.02

TESLA S
TESLA S...



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