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M43 sensors on smartphones... ?
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Jan 12, 2024 13:59:30   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
MrBob wrote:
WOW.... One of the best posts I have read on the Hog EVER... Kudos....


Which one? Since you didn’t choose “quote reply” we have no clue.

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Jan 12, 2024 14:11:15   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
one_eyed_pete wrote:
Curious news. The MFT camera sensor is 17.3mm by 13mm making the diagonal about 0.85 in. There are already several cell phones already on the market with sensor diagonals greater than the MFT sensor, up to 1" diagonal (i.e. Sony Experia Pro). I think the limiting difference is in the optics. The sensor to lens flange distance on a MFT camera is 19.25 mm. For a cell phone to duplicate the capability of a MFT camera even with a pancake lens the cell phone would need to be about 2" thick. I'm still amazed that 3/8" diameter lens on my cell phone can project any decent image onto the sensor in my phone 3/8" away.
Curious news. The MFT camera sensor is 17.3mm by 1... (show quote)


Wrong. An MFT sensor is 18mm x 13.5mm with a diagonal of 22.5mm. The thing is a 1” sensor isn’t 1”. It’s a naming convention from the earlier days of video when a CRT tube was 1” diameter. The useful part of the tube was 0.63”, or 15.9mm which is the actual diagonal of the 1” sensor.

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Jan 12, 2024 14:22:15   #
User ID
 
Reeeeeeeeeally ? Cant nobody read ? I reallize literacy is not rampant around here, but really NOBODY ??!?!?

The sensors in questiin are NOT m4/3 size.
M4/3 is not 4/3 inch. No connection at all.

And FYI "inch" in sensor speak is not a sensor dimension. Its an old vidicon classification.

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Jan 12, 2024 14:30:09   #
User ID
 
MrBob wrote:
WOW.... One of the best posts I have read on the Hog EVER... Kudos....

Thank you !!!

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Jan 12, 2024 14:33:55   #
User ID
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Which one? Since you didn’t choose “quote reply” we have no clue.

Its for me. All unassigned compliments are mine by default.

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Jan 12, 2024 15:15:34   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
User ID wrote:
Its for me. All unassigned compliments are mine by default.


Nah, I knew it was mine but I wanted him to say it.

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Jan 12, 2024 15:24:43   #
BebuLamar
 
one_eyed_pete wrote:
Curious news. The MFT camera sensor is 17.3mm by 13mm making the diagonal about 0.85 in. There are already several cell phones already on the market with sensor diagonals greater than the MFT sensor, up to 1" diagonal (i.e. Sony Experia Pro). I think the limiting difference is in the optics. The sensor to lens flange distance on a MFT camera is 19.25 mm. For a cell phone to duplicate the capability of a MFT camera even with a pancake lens the cell phone would need to be about 2" thick. I'm still amazed that 3/8" diameter lens on my cell phone can project any decent image onto the sensor in my phone 3/8" away.
Curious news. The MFT camera sensor is 17.3mm by 1... (show quote)


1" sensor is smaller than 4/3 sensor although 4/3 sensor is less than 1" in diagonal dimension. Go figure.

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Jan 12, 2024 15:35:47   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
OK... Sorry about the reply/quote reply issue... Hip Coyote gets the Kudos on my " WOW " posting !

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Jan 12, 2024 16:13:52   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
MrBob wrote:
"Multiple resources indicate a new generation of Micro-Four-Thirds sensors that is ready to arrive in the market and be implemented on smartphones. The range starts from 44 to 100 megapixels. One of the resources is Weibo which specifies the sensors per smartphone as follows:

4/3-inch 108Mp 1.4μm Nonacell Full-pixel DPAF (new ISOCELL, optimized quantum efficiency)
4/3-inch 80Mp 1.65μm QuadBayer Full-pixel 2×2 OCL AF ( IMX472 changes Mipi interface to reduce digital layer power consumption)
4/3 inch 50Mp 2.1μm 4-Cell Full-pixel 2×2 OCL AF WDR (LOFIC TheiaCel)
4/3-inch 44Mp 2.25μm Mask-PD AF VDGS (Pregius S II)"

Seems like a logical progression... BUT, I am just passing on general news ( valid or not ). Don't kill the messenger.
"Multiple resources indicate a new generation... (show quote)


I am sure these manufacturers are lying. There is a minimum pixel size that is slightly less than 1 micron under ideal conditions. This is physics. Lenses, especially ones stuffed into a pocket make matters worse. It is possible to use software to increase the native number of pixels a larger number but this is not the honest approach and is not the same as using a sensor large enough to accommodate the stated number of pixels. On a micro 4/3 camera that pixel size is on the order of 4 microns.

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Jan 12, 2024 16:15:03   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
1" sensor is smaller than 4/3 sensor although 4/3 sensor is less than 1" in diagonal dimension. Go figure.


The 4/3 im micro 4/3 refers to the aspect ratio of the image and sensor.

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Jan 12, 2024 16:28:17   #
BebuLamar
 
fetzler wrote:
The 4/3 im micro 4/3 refers to the aspect ratio of the image and sensor.


Yes I know and it's 22.3mm in diagonal dimension which is less than 1" yet the 1" sensor is smaller still which diagonal dimension of 0.63" or 15.9mm. Both actually have 4:3 aspect ratio.

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Jan 12, 2024 18:20:27   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
My new phone can even make calls. Lol

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Jan 12, 2024 20:12:44   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
MrBob wrote:
"Multiple resources indicate a new generation of Micro-Four-Thirds sensors that is ready to arrive in the market and be implemented on smartphones. The range starts from 44 to 100 megapixels. One of the resources is Weibo which specifies the sensors per smartphone as follows:

4/3-inch 108Mp 1.4μm Nonacell Full-pixel DPAF (new ISOCELL, optimized quantum efficiency)
4/3-inch 80Mp 1.65μm QuadBayer Full-pixel 2×2 OCL AF ( IMX472 changes Mipi interface to reduce digital layer power consumption)
4/3 inch 50Mp 2.1μm 4-Cell Full-pixel 2×2 OCL AF WDR (LOFIC TheiaCel)
4/3-inch 44Mp 2.25μm Mask-PD AF VDGS (Pregius S II)"

Seems like a logical progression... BUT, I am just passing on general news ( valid or not ). Don't kill the messenger.
"Multiple resources indicate a new generation... (show quote)


Are you sure that the sensor meets the m43 specification? Not every sensor having a 4/3 aspect ratio is a M43 sensor.

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Jan 12, 2024 21:17:27   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
TheShoe wrote:
Are you sure that the sensor meets the m43 specification? Not every sensor having a 4/3 aspect ratio is a M43 sensor.


You are correct. There is the Aspect Ratio and the digital camera format. Indeed 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 in film would be close to 4:3 aspect ratio.

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Jan 12, 2024 22:58:33   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
burkphoto wrote:
I'll be curious, once a real phone comes out with one of these in it.

I just bought a new iPhone 15 Pro Max. It is more than sufficient for my casual imaging needs.

I do plan to replace my Micro 4/3 Lumix GH4 with a Lumix G9 Mark II, however. It has a more realistic 25 MP Micro 4/3 sensor in it. Remember, with about 1/4 the physical area, that's almost like a 100MP full frame sensor when it comes to photo receptor site (sensel) size. That is not an issue for what I need to do, but it would hamper some folks' games.

The sensors you listed seem more appropriate for spy work, industrial applications, and yes, smartphones that have megapixel bragging rights.

More is not necessarily better!
I'll be curious, once a real phone comes out with ... (show quote)


That seems to be the case. I have a Samsung S23 Ultra and I prefer the regular 12MP jpgs to the 200MP DNG files it can also produce. Seems odd to me. But perhaps these DNGs are different and do not process properly with my old version of ACR 9.1.1 and Ps CS6, yet the DNGs I get from my FF Pentax K-1 mark ii process fine. My guess is that the 50 and 200 MP image files are simulated interpolated and not native high pixel count. The 50 and 200 MP jpgs are better though.

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