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Going solar- NOT
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Jan 10, 2024 16:19:33   #
clickety
 
Dikdik wrote:
and also look into the increasing cost for conventional power. The large increase that prompted him to look into solar, may just be the tip of the iceberg. With climate change, I suspect power costs are going to increase substantially in the future.


Inevitably power costs will continue to increase but not because of a changing climate. Instead it’s because of the irrational, knee jerk, fear propogating opportunists that are profiting from a natural, unstoppable, unpreventable dynamic of the Cosmos.

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Jan 10, 2024 16:22:30   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
I hope you are right, but I'm not so confident. A recent article, paints a different story.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_Global_Risks_Report_2024.pdf

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Jan 10, 2024 16:37:34   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
He said his energy provider doesn't buy his extra electricity so he get nothing when he generate more power than he needs.


In California with PG&E, they look at power generated by your solar versus how much you use and do the calculation of how much you may still owe after one year. It isn't done on a monthly basis. We owed them only $64 above connection fees two years ago and about $600 last year when it rained all winter long and we generated a lot less electricity. If the total goes negative, then they don't pay you for your surplus energy. You just own $0 at the end of the year. They just reduced their rate of credit this year, but older systems are grandfathered in at the higher rate.

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Jan 10, 2024 17:24:39   #
neillaubenthal
 
andesbill wrote:
My electric bills for my 1983 sq ft house came to $200 5 years ago. I paid cash for solar. It will take about 12 years to break even. The actual savings are about $190/month.
My costs have increased because I added a pool heater and Tesla.


And what is the lost opportunity or investment gain from the cash you paid that wasn’t invested the past 5 years? Most analyses don’t take that into account either. I’m not saying solar is a bad thing…but it’s nowhere nearly as good as solar sellers tell you. And…if you live in a place that needs A/C in the summer…it’s really hard to get enough panels on the roof to support that…and you’re still screwed at night or when it’s raining and need grid power unless you put in a whole lot of batteries. Few people actually take all of the costs, benefits, and shortcomings into account. We added them to the RV we lived in full time for 8 years…and might have saved 10 or 15 bucks a month in FL in the winter…you only get 5 to 6 hours of full output because of physics and geometry. Even at 15 bucks a month for the six months we were in FL…it would have taken us well over 60l months to pay for them…but solar in an RV is a lifestyle thing as it lets you park in the desert if you like…but power still needs to be carefully managed and A/C…fugetaboutit.

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Jan 11, 2024 00:45:14   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Dennis833 wrote:
My solar investment has been a very positive. We purchased the system outright and my energy provider buys energy back so we now have a $220 AUD credit after the last three months. We also have an AIRBNB gallery apartment using electricity of the same tariff.



Good deal, our problem was the way our two-story house is arranged and situated. Plus until last year the neighbor had two very tall trees that shaded our roof half the day. Most of the backyard is our swimming pool.
We just didn't have room for enough panels to power our whole house and produce a surplus like you are blessed with.

Being a reluctant friend of "Murphy" (of law fame) I figure that about a short time before I die I will see a news article on TV that some geek just invented a new type of solar panel that is near 100% efficient, costs $1 a square foot and a new kind of battery the size and cost of a car battery that will store enough electricity to power our block all day on a couple of hours of sunlight.
Then I will say "Now put in solar."

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Jan 11, 2024 08:07:08   #
agillot
 
One thing you have to be aware of , is that some home owner insurance co dont cover houses with solar panels .So you may get dumped . If you electrical bill is under $ 150 , it is not worth it . Also a system that does not have battery power back up is not that great [ at night ??? ] . $ 11k for a system is a minimum capability one . Roof issues also get complicated with solar panels . Also , some solar panels are junk .

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Jan 11, 2024 08:20:18   #
Robertski Loc: So California
 
therwol wrote:
The way it is supposed to work is that they do take your surplus energy in the daytime and reduce your bill accordingly. At the end of a year, they figure what you used against what you made. If you don't generate as much as you use, then you owe some money. If you generate more than you use, then they don't pay you for it. It's the same in California. If your system is large enough, then you're giving them free electricity. To complicate things in California, the rate that they pay for solar was recently cut to nearly nothing. (Existing systems are grandfathered in at the previous rate.) If you install solar now, then you'll never pay for it. To make matters worse, all new home construction in this state are required to have solar, which will add to the cost of homes. Solar companies are going out of business here.
The way it is supposed to work is that they do tak... (show quote)


Its nice to know they are going out of business. I live in southern California and got quotes from several companies in the spring of 2023 (just before the grandfather buyback feature would be reduced by SCE) The California companies were generally 3 times the price as other states in the nation. The cost of electricity is also 3 times the national average, which should make it even more attractive. It only made sense to me to buy it myself and find an install company to assist in installation for it to make financial sense. Of the 3 purchase options, the Rent or Lease, only help the sales company.

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Jan 11, 2024 08:28:08   #
Robertski Loc: So California
 
Texcaster wrote:
My solar hot water lasted 23 years and paid for the new one. We're early adopters of solar and sell power to the grid at a high 'legacy rate' ... and our AC is free. When the 'legacy rate' lapses we'll add more panels.


Please confirm that your water heater is electric powered by solar PV panels. You may live in Australia, whereas I live in the US. In many parts of the world, solar water heaters are where the water is heated by the sun. It is a great way to go, especially since many countries give incentives to install the Solar Water Heater. The US govt has no such incentives, therefor they aren't sold here much. This is a pity, as they are very effective.

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Jan 11, 2024 08:29:06   #
rdemarco52 Loc: Wantagh, NY
 
I did the same calculations and reached the same conclusion as you. Plus, you have to get a permit where I live to put in a system. Not for me.

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Jan 11, 2024 08:45:33   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
scallihan wrote:
My energy provider increased our rates as of Jan 1 by 18%, so got a quote for solar panels on my 1200 sq ft house. My HOA does allow this with some very reasonable aesthetic restrictions. (We have a great HOA!)

The presentation was very comprehensive and convincing. The cost came to a little over $11,000 AFTER state and federal incentives. I could pay cash or finance at 3.99% for 25 years for a monthly payment of $124.00.

The presentation factored in the months when I would not pay anything to my energy provider (7 months/year) and I would pay a small amount to the energy provider the other (colder or hotter) 5 months. This energy provider does not "buy back" if one uses less energy than generated by the panels.

The salesman was very professional and did not apply undue pressure. I said I would think it over and let him know the following Monday.

So I averaged my annual bills for 2023 and added 20% (including all the junk charges beyond cost of energy used), then added 20% to that for the next five years. After FIVE years of annual 20% increases (which is pretty extreme and unlikely to happen), my monthly electrical bill would still be less than $124/month (let's not forget there are months when I would be paying the utility provider over and above that $124 fixed payment).

So if you are thinking of looking into solar, do your due diligence first so you have a true comparison on hand before signing anything.
My energy provider increased our rates as of Jan 1... (show quote)


Years ago, I emailed every solar installer I could find. Not one got back to me.

There is a local woman who posts every month that she got another Zero bill from the electric company. She never says how much she has to pay to the solar company, though, or how long she must keep paying.

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Jan 11, 2024 10:39:25   #
JeffR Loc: Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
 
Indi wrote:
I don’t know about your area & utilities “buying back” electricity but in NY, the utility buys energy back from you at the “wholesale rate” so it wouldn’t be at the rate you pay them. I don’t have solar, but I do believe in
It.


Depends on the state. Here in Delaware, the utility (Delmarva Power) charges us for our net usage, i.e., the same $/kWh whether buying or selling. We do, however, pay a charge for having a connection to the power grid. My bills are around $35/month, but would be around $170/month without our solar panels.

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Jan 11, 2024 13:51:01   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
scallihan wrote:
My energy provider increased our rates as of Jan 1 by 18%, so got a quote for solar panels on my 1200 sq ft house. My HOA does allow this with some very reasonable aesthetic restrictions. (We have a great HOA!)

The presentation was very comprehensive and convincing. The cost came to a little over $11,000 AFTER state and federal incentives. I could pay cash or finance at 3.99% for 25 years for a monthly payment of $124.00.

The presentation factored in the months when I would not pay anything to my energy provider (7 months/year) and I would pay a small amount to the energy provider the other (colder or hotter) 5 months. This energy provider does not "buy back" if one uses less energy than generated by the panels.

The salesman was very professional and did not apply undue pressure. I said I would think it over and let him know the following Monday.

So I averaged my annual bills for 2023 and added 20% (including all the junk charges beyond cost of energy used), then added 20% to that for the next five years. After FIVE years of annual 20% increases (which is pretty extreme and unlikely to happen), my monthly electrical bill would still be less than $124/month (let's not forget there are months when I would be paying the utility provider over and above that $124 fixed payment).

So if you are thinking of looking into solar, do your due diligence first so you have a true comparison on hand before signing anything.
My energy provider increased our rates as of Jan 1... (show quote)

You got one heck of a great deal at a mere $11,000! I got a quote on solar last fall and it came in at $55,000. After doing much the same analysis as you did I decided a 25+ year payout was ridiculous considering the panels probably would only last about 20, maybe 25 years AND then I'd have to start over... Besides, they'd be covered in snow about six months of the year!

It is currently -31°C this morning with a forecast of -45°C for the next two days. With this in mind I used an EV mileage calculator to see how far a potential EV might get me. Tomorrow I'd get 40 miles (compared to the advertised 200 miles) before being stranded on a country road. Going EV - NOT!!

Isn't this 'green plan' nonsense just wonderful!?

bwa

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Jan 11, 2024 19:20:22   #
dwmoar Loc: Oregon, Willamette Valley
 
robertjerl wrote:

Good deal, our problem was the way our two-story house is arranged and situated. Plus until last year the neighbor had two very tall trees that shaded our roof half the day. Most of the backyard is our swimming pool.
We just didn't have room for enough panels to power our whole house and produce a surplus like you are blessed with.

Being a reluctant friend of "Murphy" (of law fame) I figure that about a short time before I die I will see a news article on TV that some geek just invented a new type of solar panel that is near 100% efficient, costs $1 a square foot and a new kind of battery the size and cost of a car battery that will store enough electricity to power our block all day on a couple of hours of sunlight.
Then I will say "Now put in solar."
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)


In other words, you will never see that happen.

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Jan 11, 2024 19:39:15   #
dwmoar Loc: Oregon, Willamette Valley
 
Robertski wrote:
Please confirm that your water heater is electric powered by solar PV panels. You may live in Australia, whereas I live in the US. In many parts of the world, solar water heaters are where the water is heated by the sun. It is a great way to go, especially since many countries give incentives to install the Solar Water Heater. The US govt has no such incentives, therefor they aren't sold here much. This is a pity, as they are very effective.


I live in Oregon and I have solar hot water for over 15 years. If I had to do it again, I would in a heartbeat.

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Jan 11, 2024 23:41:51   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
Robertski wrote:
Please confirm that your water heater is electric powered by solar PV panels. You may live in Australia, whereas I live in the US. In many parts of the world, solar water heaters are where the water is heated by the sun. It is a great way to go, especially since many countries give incentives to install the Solar Water Heater. The US govt has no such incentives, therefor they aren't sold here much. This is a pity, as they are very effective.


Our hot water is solar powered electric with mains back up, for days in a row of not much sun.

BTW - our heater lasted 30 years not 20 as I stated. It was a Solahart

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