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Sensor size in a point and shoot
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Jan 9, 2024 10:23:25   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
cptiger wrote:
How much does it matter? I'm pretty particular about results printing 12 x 18 or less. My main camera is an R5. Will I be satisfied with a 1/2.3 (which is less than 1/2 inch) or should I go with a 1 inch? I may know the answer, but someone might surprise me!


Jackpinoh has the best advice so far IMHO.
From my hands-on experience:
My camera is also a Canon R5 using Canon RF lenses.
I have used a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 VII Digital Camera and it gave excellent results. It has a 20.1MP 1" Exmor RS BSI CMOS Sensor.
On my last trip, I used my iPhone 14 Pro Max (handheld indoors w/o flash) and processed the attached pic (7 MP) using Topaz Photo AI in default mode.
My point is that smaller high-quality formats may have some disadvantages, but they can produce acceptable (to me) results using PS or any quality processing product.
Best Wishes,
JimmyT Sends


(Download)

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Jan 9, 2024 10:41:23   #
AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!
 
I have had two non-full size cameras. One is a Canon 1D Mk IV, and the other is an SX-50. I tend to print large - rarely smaller than 12x18. Both of these cameras have performed well at that size and above. I have made 36x40 of all but the SX-50. Frankly, I don't know the size of any of the sensors in my cameras. If the lens is sharp, and I can hold the camera still, I get as large as I'd ever want to go, probably.

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Jan 9, 2024 10:50:10   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Delderby wrote:
My conclusion is - larger sensor and don't crowd the pixels.

No.

Smaller sensor cameras are completely capable of producing adequate resolution of fine detail and sharpness. The photo below is from a 10 megapixel 1/1.7" (7.44 x 5.58 mm) sensor camera that fit in a pocket.

My current compact, also pocketable, has a 20 megapixel 1″ (13.2 x 8.8 mm) sensor and delivers 5472 x 3648 res images -- more than adequate.

Where smaller sensors are weak is in low light conditions. They're noisier and have less DR because they gather less light. In good light conditions (note photo below) they can be more than sufficient.


(Download)

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Jan 9, 2024 10:56:31   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
cptiger wrote:
How much does it matter? I'm pretty particular about results printing 12 x 18 or less. My main camera is an R5. Will I be satisfied with a 1/2.3 (which is less than 1/2 inch) or should I go with a 1 inch? I may know the answer, but someone might surprise me!


It depends mostly in the number of megapixels in this case. 15mp to 20mp should be enough to have a clean 12 X 18. But remember there are other issues with a smaller sensor. Depth of field is very large even when compared to 4/3rds. And low light ability is also much less than 4/3rds let alone your R5. Point and shoots plus smartphones have their uses but usually do not have the control and/or convenience (and sometimes the image quality) of cameras like the R5.

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Jan 9, 2024 11:11:19   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
billnikon wrote:
I have sold this print in a 20X30 5 times over to various clients. They believe it is extremely sharp. Sorry you do not agree.


Hi billnikon
It may be that the UH rendition of your pic doesn't do it justice (no download). In order to test this I am attaching the EPU sharpened version to identify any changes.
Even with the UH ravages it does seem sharper?



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Jan 9, 2024 11:21:23   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
cptiger wrote:
How much does it matter? I'm pretty particular about results printing 12 x 18 or less. My main camera is an R5. Will I be satisfied with a 1/2.3 (which is less than 1/2 inch) or should I go with a 1 inch? I may know the answer, but someone might surprise me!

Since the days of only film I have chased the elusive goal of always having a camera with me. My serious film cameras were sheet and 120 roll cameras that typically had a heavy tripod under them -- not going with me to the grocery store. So I tried for years to carry small folding or collapsible 35mm cameras like the little Rolleis. My success was limited, but I kept trying.

With the arrival of the digital era my goal became more achievable. Initially I went through a series of very small (Sony & Panny) shirt pocket cameras but was frustrated by their JPEG only limitation. Now I'm happy and carry a Canon G7xmkII with me everywhere I go. I have two FF and two APS sensor cameras and my little 1" sensor G7 gets more use than all four of the bigger sensor cameras combined -- the equation is simple; it's always with me.

I could use a phone now but it would cost a lot more and deliver a lot less. What I learned originally from my earlier attempts with the little shirt pocket Sonys was that I really don't like being frustrated by a camera that won't meet my expectations and requirements. The G7 does.

The photo below of a very old tree in the park was taken when I sat to rest while out walking with my wife. No camera = no photo. Phone camera? It was twilight and I raised the ISO on my G7 to 1600 which a modern 1" sensor camera can now handle effortlessly -- not so much yet the phones.


(Download)

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Jan 9, 2024 11:44:34   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Delderby wrote:
The pic included in your reply is, I think, very pleasant and well exposed, however it is quite soft. I would not expect anything else from a 30x zoom, and personally I wouldn't go there. Having said that, I achieved a sharper and much more acceptable result in 30 seconds after using Easy Photo Unblur - but that's not the point - I am sure that with my M4/3 Leica, 14mp, 3x zoom, cropped to same view I wouldn't need EPU.
My conclusion is - larger sensor and don't crowd the pixels.
The pic included in your reply is, I think, very p... (show quote)


It's hard to say how sharp it is because what's presented is only a lower resolution thumbnail. It's more than likely that if he had attached a higher resolution downloadable version It would have been much sharper.

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Jan 9, 2024 12:33:59   #
MJPerini
 
This is one of those questions you really have to answer for yourself.
Good pictures can be made with any modern camera. Pictures that regularly hold up well to enlargement are a slightly different matter and a personal choice.
In my case I shoot FF mostly but also have had several versions of Canon’s G7x and have been very impressed by the 1” sensor and fast zoom. As others have with Sony’s version ( I think Canon buys those 1” sensors from Sony, at least I read that a while back)
Mostly this is a common sense decision— yes larger sensors have advantages, but but good smaller sensors allow portability and convenience that make great sense.
My opinion is that quality wise you are quite safe at 1” and above. Others are happy with even smaller- so it has to be your call.

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Jan 9, 2024 12:54:52   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
cptiger wrote:
How much does it matter? I'm pretty particular about results printing 12 x 18 or less. My main camera is an R5. Will I be satisfied with a 1/2.3 (which is less than 1/2 inch) or should I go with a 1 inch? I may know the answer, but someone might surprise me!

WRT to sensor I've always considered bigger is better, particularly for noise control.

However, I have found the Sony RX10 IV does an excellent job with its 1" sensor.

bwa

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Jan 9, 2024 12:55:39   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
mwsilvers wrote:
It's hard to say how sharp it is because what's presented is only a lower resolution thumbnail. It's more than likely that if he had attached a higher resolution downloadable version It would have been much sharper.


I'm sure that billnikon understands that - so really, presenting the pic as an example, without a download, was probably a bit futile. However - my reply to his does include a sharper thumbnail ?

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Jan 9, 2024 13:01:22   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Ysarex wrote:
Since the days of only film I have chased the elusive goal of always having a camera with me. My serious film cameras were sheet and 120 roll cameras that typically had a heavy tripod under them -- not going with me to the grocery store. So I tried for years to carry small folding or collapsible 35mm cameras like the little Rolleis. My success was limited, but I kept trying.

With the arrival of the digital era my goal became more achievable. Initially I went through a series of very small (Sony & Panny) shirt pocket cameras but was frustrated by their JPEG only limitation. Now I'm happy and carry a Canon G7xmkII with me everywhere I go. I have two FF and two APS sensor cameras and my little 1" sensor G7 gets more use than all four of the bigger sensor cameras combined -- the equation is simple; it's always with me.

I could use a phone now but it would cost a lot more and deliver a lot less. What I learned originally from my earlier attempts with the little shirt pocket Sonys was that I really don't like being frustrated by a camera that won't meet my expectations and requirements. The G7 does.

The photo below of a very old tree in the park was taken when I sat to rest while out walking with my wife. No camera = no photo. Phone camera? It was twilight and I raised the ISO on my G7 to 1600 which a modern 1" sensor camera can now handle effortlessly -- not so much yet the phones.
Since the days of only film I have chased the elus... (show quote)


That is a great pic - successfully combines two different subjects - each full of interest.

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Jan 9, 2024 13:01:35   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
cptiger wrote:
How much does it matter? I'm pretty particular about results printing 12 x 18 or less. My main camera is an R5. Will I be satisfied with a 1/2.3 (which is less than 1/2 inch) or should I go with a 1 inch? I may know the answer, but someone might surprise me!


I bought my daughter a Panasonic DMC-ZS100 compact camera for Christmas in 2022. It has 20.1mp and a 1” sensor. She regularly prints up to 12 X 18 and the results look fine. She loves the camera.

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Jan 9, 2024 13:29:32   #
User ID
 
timbuktutraveler wrote:
I have the Sony RX100 VII - no trouble taking 16 x 20 lovely photos

So youre positing that print size, 16x20 in your example, sorts out photographers cameras from tourists cameras ? Phone cameras can deliver those "16x20 lovely photos". IOW print size doesnt categorize cameras. Print size has nothing to do with capabilities and user interface.

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Jan 9, 2024 13:46:21   #
User ID
 
Fredrick wrote:
I bought my daughter a Panasonic DMC-ZS100 compact camera for Christmas in 2022. It has 20.1mp and a 1” sensor. She regularly prints up to 12 X 18 and the results look fine. She loves the camera.

I have exactly that same camera. Fortunately, I bought it at "fire sale" $$. Within a rather narrow set of corcumstances it really delivers. I really can do some things verrrry well.

How narrow is narrow ? After coupla months of hopeful use, I parked it. Its very much a tourist camera and Im simply not a tourist. It has its purposes, but its a rather frustrating limited purpose device for a photographer, 20MP and "Leica" (lol) lens not withstanding.

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Jan 9, 2024 14:00:57   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
AzPicLady wrote:
I have had two non-full size cameras. One is a Canon 1D Mk IV, and the other is an SX-50. I tend to print large - rarely smaller than 12x18. Both of these cameras have performed well at that size and above. I have made 36x40 of all but the SX-50. Frankly, I don't know the size of any of the sensors in my cameras. If the lens is sharp, and I can hold the camera still, I get as large as I'd ever want to go, probably.


The Canon 1D Mk IV IS a full frame camera. I have no idea what you mean by full size.

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