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Portrait vs Model Shot vs Glamor/ "Cheescake"
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Jan 3, 2024 18:45:00   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Well, I suppose they are portraits.....
(define portrait)


Actually, “portrait” being a word that’s been in the English language for a very long time is already pretty well defined. Different dictionaries may use slightly different words but essentially the meaning is the same.
Merriam-Webster says: PICTURE
especially : a pictorial representation of a person usually showing the face
The Oxford Language Dictionary says: a painting, drawing, photograph, or engraving of a person, especially one depicting only the face or head and shoulders.
Pretty simple. JC Penney headshot, glamor shot, boudoir shot, all portraits. I know trying to redefine words that already have straightforward definitions is a favorite pastime for some around here. You can believe what you want but that’s not gonna make it right.

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Jan 3, 2024 18:47:52   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
flyboy61 wrote:
If she'd have tried to use a Graflex 4X5, the wind through the open gunner's windows in the side of the plane would likely blown the bellows out of the camera. What she was holding was probably the most usable camera available. Or...maybe it was just a prop?

Anyhoo....good photo, and well printed!


MBW worked for Life Magazine and they wouldn't send her out with the wrong gear! They had photo specialists with vast, deep knowledge of cameras, lenses, lighting, and technique, and no doubt would have researched what aerial photography from a war plane required.

That lady was a pioneer in so many ways. I have total respect for her work. The world was a very different place 80± years ago.

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Jan 3, 2024 19:03:35   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
MJPerini wrote:
There are pictures with people in them, and then there are portraits.
Portraits tend to be a serious attempt to reveal a bit of insight into the person.
They can be serious or light hearted and even occasionally accidentally revealing.
Look at great portraits. They can be formal, or informal, extensively lit or taken in open shade, but the net result attempts to be a photographic insight into the person.
A professional Model shot is something different. You hire a Model because they are skilled at being in front of the camera, you discuss what you want the end result to be with the model, and work on Ideas until you get a money shot that nails the concept
Re Glamor & Cheesecake (a term that no longer really works) Both of them tend to mean sexually suggestive pictures. These terms have been largely supplanted in recent years by the rise of Boudoir Photography. Still sexually suggestive, but now usually done by a wife or girlfriend as a gift to husband or boyfriend. Even couples occasionally.
If done professionally they are often story-boarded so everyone is clear on exactly how the shoot will transpire and what the final work product will be. These should ALWAYS be client directed.
On an Amateur basis these can often turn into Guy with a camera giving Photographers a bad name.

Can a 'street photograph' be a portrait, not usually but I suppose it might be possible as a happy accident.
There are pictures with people in them, and then t... (show quote)


There you go trying to pigeonhole photos based on your opinion. They are ALL portraits. As for glamor shots, I find them to rarely be sexually suggestive. And professional model shots are often sexually charged. As for street photography, it can absolutely be portraiture and some of the best street shots are portraits.


(Download)


(Download)

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Jan 3, 2024 19:31:51   #
twb930s Loc: Aldie, Virginia
 
Timmers wrote:
During WW II there was a portrait made of the European Babe-A-Luscious Margret Bourke White. She had gone on what was suppose to be 'A milk run' over Germany, Of course she was Ikes main squeeze and got anything she wanted, even beyond reason, like flyingin a B-17 bomber over Germany. She got some standard photos but stood shooting snaps when the bomb group came under heavy fire, it turned out to be less than a 'milk run', the two waste gunners died and Bourke-White took over the fifty cals and returned fire taking out several Me-109s that were attacking. Almost everyone on that bomber died or was wounded.

The image you see is of her as she exited the shot up B-17 after it landed made by her assistant photo guy. This ran in as the center fold in Stars and Stripes for the rest of the war as the replacement to the 'girly' center fold because the GIs in Europe wanted it as the center fold pin up, so many requests were there made. She would sign autographs of all ranks from these center fold pin up prints out of Stars and Strips, some while across from German troops in the fox holes of American and allied soldiers in the front lines between fighting.

Portrait or pin up? Sexy? Hot? Babe! In her era Margret Bourke White was the shining center of being a sexy hot babe to women and men alike in a world dominated by the male gaze. Guess what, the world has changed and men are beginning to understand that women are becoming powerful beings in many respects to any and all things that men can imagine. If you think that women don't know just how powerful they are by using there sexuality, the raw power that a necked woman's body is to the males around them then you have missed the boat and are lost in a past that will not be returning if the women have anything to do about that.

Women DON'T need to be nude to have power, it's just that many women love to be nude, and they really do like being ogled by men in or out of their clothing! Live with it.
During WW II there was a portrait made of the Euro... (show quote)


Margaret Bourke-White was an American photographer. She was born in New York and was married to the author Erskine Caldwell for a few years. She did spend much of her time in Europe and Russia working for Life Magazine, but she was American, not European.

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Jan 3, 2024 19:36:33   #
MrPhotog
 
radiojohn wrote:


As one poster said, "A portrait should let you see something of a person's personality regardless of what that may be. A glamor or cheesecake shot is meant to display sexy or attractiveness regardless of what a person's personality may be."

Has there been a blurring of types of photos or just sloppy admins. Your thoughts?


A significant portion of the population self-identifies along the lines of their sexuality.

The same could be said about those who self define their religion, or their musical or fashion choices, or in any other way.

A businessman may want to look like the stereotype of others in their field. An athlete may want to look sweaty. A ballerina may want to be monumentalized en pointe.

And a sex worker (legal in some areas, not so in others) may choose something they find appropriate to their line of work is suitable for their walls.

A good ‘portrait’ should indeed ‘portray’ (the words have the same root) that person’s lifestyle and how they define it or express it.

Or sometimes it how we perceive a person.

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Jan 3, 2024 21:38:12   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
BMW is carrying a COMBAT GRAPHIC in that image. A similar mode was used for certain aerial recon runs to preclude bellows. One important rule of aerial photography is don't get your bellows in the slipstream which would make fast work of them! Almost as important is rule #-1 when boarding a gunship (helicopter) where the rotor is in motion -CHOUCH AND DUCK unless you are into decapitation.

Even a strong and brave lady like MBW would have difficulty managing the K-series Aeria Camera shown in the attached image. Designed by Fairchild and made by Graflex! There are smaller modes for the 4x5 film format. The big guys used 10" roll film.







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Jan 3, 2024 21:48:26   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
radiojohn wrote:
Most of the loosely moderated FB pages for portraits are hit with semi nudes, heavily tattooed glamor, staged model shots and other sexually charged images.

As one poster said, "A portrait should let you see something of a person's personality regardless of what that may be. A glamor or cheesecake shot is meant to display sexy or attractiveness regardless of what a person's personality may be."

Has there been a blurring of types of photos or just sloppy admins. Your thoughts?
Most of the loosely moderated FB pages for portrai... (show quote)


A bit of a “time-waster” this one, everyone here knows the definition of “portrait” sounds a bit like this: A likeness of a person, especially one showing the face, that is created by a painter or photographer. Cheers!

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Jan 4, 2024 00:09:43   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
There are numerous styles and approaches to photographic (people) portraiture. Someof the categories are classical/traditional, theatrical/glamour, abstract, candid journalistic, or whatever you like or can conjure up creatively. Each has many sub-categories and stylizations.

If I had to come up with a simple definition it would be"an image that makes a VISUAL statement about a person". The system is in the hands and eyes of the photograher. For example- low key portrait of a lovely lad- dark dress- dark background, etc- hs emphasizes the face and perhaps the body. The statement is perhaps "A lovely lady". If we were to change the dress to a bright fluorescent red dress or a more revealing outfit, the STATEMET may change to "a glamourous red or sexy dress, with and lovely lady in it- perhaps an entertainer or a model" The latter may be considered by some a "glamour" portraot or starting to look like a fashion shot. Ain't anythg wrong with that interpretation unless she was using the image to accompany her application for the position of a school teacher or a nurse? Tattoos, untraditional clothing, whatever, are all part of a person's personality self-image, or image they wanted to project.

Props, and background details, are elements that help tell a story about the subject.

In traditional portraiture, the subject (client) usually wants a flattering interpretation. Therein lies the artistry! It's hard work and ain't for the impatient or faint of heart. I can write a book but my typing in lousey!

I have been in the portrait business all my working life and have never had a client ask me for anything that would be considered pornographic or in poor taste.

For me- a good portrait consists of a good likeness, a natural expression and pose, and effective lighting.

If anyone out there is interested in fine portraiture- don't bother to define it. Bone up on your people skills, lighting, and camera technique, and photograph PEOPLE- as many as you can! Make those statements!

"Cheesecake" is good eating! A "hot babe" is an infant running a fever! STOP Already with the outdated lingo- what is this- the 7th grade?
There are numerous styles and approaches to photog... (show quote)


Ed, are you just now figuriing out that this place is the 7th grade? lol

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Jan 4, 2024 00:17:05   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
[quote=fuminous]
Timmers wrote:
During WW II there was a portrait made of the European Babe-A-Luscious Margret Bourke White. She had gone on what was suppose to be 'A milk run' over Germany, Of course she was Ikes main squeeze and got anything she wanted, even beyond reason, like flyingin a B-17 bomber over Germany.....(snip)

I suggest you read MBW's autobiography, "Portrait Of Myself".... for her words on that event. And, as Lagniappe, and a pretty good parallel, try Martha Gellhorn's "Travels with Myself and Another". Also note both were married (briefly) to already very successful authors.
During WW II there was a portrait made of the Euro... (show quote)


I had always thought that Kay Summersby was Ike's main squeeze.

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Jan 4, 2024 00:29:26   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
BMW is carrying a COMBAT GRAPHIC in that image. A similar mode was used for certain aerial recon runs to preclude bellows. One important rule of aerial photography is don't get your bellows in the slipstream which would make fast work of them! Almost as important is rule #-1 when boarding a gunship (helicopter) where the rotor is in motion -CHOUCH AND DUCK unless you are into decapitation.

Even a strong and brave lady like MBW would have difficulty managing the K-series Aeria Camera shown in the attached image. Designed by Fairchild and made by Graflex! There are smaller modes for the 4x5 film format. The big guys used 10" roll film.
BMW is carrying a COMBAT GRAPHIC in that image. A ... (show quote)


"You call that a camera, now "this" is a camera!!"

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Jan 4, 2024 10:26:42   #
User ID
 
xt2 wrote:
A bit of a “time-waster” this one, everyone here knows the definition of “portrait” sounds a bit like this: A likeness of a person, especially one showing the face, that is created by a painter or photographer. Cheers!

Much less a time wasterer than What Lenses for a Cruise, UV Filters, etc etc. This thread is actually about images. Way too rare on UHH.

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Jan 4, 2024 11:01:11   #
User ID
 
Hip Coyote wrote:
If you do nudes or semi nude, you better be damned good. Maybe 1% on the nude section of UHH are good...artistic. Great lighting, posing, etc. The rest is a peep show. I have not tried, and am not really interested in nudes...way out of my league.

Agreed. Took a peep myself to check what youve said, and youre 101% correct. Didnt stay long enough to stumble on any good images. All very sad photographic garbage.

I have a friend who is enormously great at various degrees of nakedness, costuming, settings, etc. FWIW to silly UHH discussion, that friend uses ALL the pixels of his 61MP camera. His images, usually printed about 16x24, would not be the same at less rez.

He taught himself in a year or two, from scratch, and without the leisure time that Hawgsters seem to enjoy. Hes an ER doc, verrrrrrry busy. Learned photo during the height of the pandemic.

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Jan 4, 2024 11:03:30   #
Ava'sPapa Loc: Cheshire, Ct.
 
The soldier up above is getting ready to take a vacation in Rome in a week or two...what lenses would you recommend he take? Nothing too heavy, because weight is important.

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Jan 4, 2024 11:53:24   #
awesome14 Loc: UK
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
the artistry! It's hard work and ain't for the impatient or faint of heart. I can write a book but my typing in lousey!

I have been in the portrait business all my working life and have never had a client ask me for anything that would be camera technique, and photograph PEOPLE- as many as you can! Make those statements!

"Cheesecake" is good eating! A "hot babe" is an infant running a fever! STOP Already with the outdated lingo- what is this- the 7th grade?
the artistry! It's hard work and ain't for the im... (show quote)


We're talking about a million years of natural selection in which genetic survival and mating traits have been preserved. while inferior traits have died with their owners. At one point there were no laws, governments, courts of law, police; and we can only assume obtaining consent from a female hadn't even been imagined. If anything it would been viewed as an unnecessary and irrelevant impediment to reproduction.

So, the trait im males of just putting a female down on all fours, pushing her cheek to ground, and inseminating her, resulted in superior reproductive ability, and the the trait was preserved through generations. Similarly, women with large, firm, well-formed, pointed-up breasts made desireable mates, because large, firm breasts are higher in mammary--milk producing-- tissue, which produce better nutrition for a.man's children. Well-formed breasts are symmetrical, indicating genetic diversity, communicating to the male that that his offspring will benefit from many immune factors passed to infants through breast milk.

Pointed-up breasts indicated they are unused, which up until the 1960s indicated virginity. Today, they imply virginity. Evolution doesn't react as quickly as rational thought. Implied is the first fruit of the womb is yet to be reaped. These are all superior mating traits. But in order to have his babies take advantage of such breasts, he needs a baby by the owner. Hence, the male mating response to large, firm, well-formed, pointed-up breasts.

Sensual beauty is and unspoken language understood only by masculinity. It is a line item blueprint of the female's relative reproductive and infant-feeding potential. The objective of nude female portraits is to depict genetically superior female mating stock. Men prefer the way God dresses women, because they're religious.

Evolution has not caught up to industrialized civilization. If it had, males would have a mating response to industrial food-processing plants that manufacture infant formula. Sensual beauty is an unspoken language between God and man, the 2 masculine things in the universe. The female is that part of nature created as a gift to the man. So, the male communes with God and nature when viewing sensual beauty.

It is an unspoken promise of new life in the image of married lovers and in the image of God. So, erotic nudes are understandably popular among men. Every truly erotic experience carries with the promise of a divine gift. This was first verbalized in 300B.C.

The wise find it convincing, while the merely clever remain unconvinced. Tattooed females deface their purity as given to them by God. Men who prefer inked females are attracted to rebellion against God, which makes the female an easy target for use as barren flesh to sate the male's primal urge.

Pure females have no ink. They are exactly the way God created them. Men who prefer pure females are attracted to the beauty of innocence; that the girl hasn't had some other guy's jism up her reproductive tract. Such a girl makes a fine obedient wife, who chastity is rewarded by her fertile bounty. She can teach her daughters chastity without indicting herself.

Because of the above, the most valuable depiction of the female is the display of her sensual beauty. Pick up chicks, hot babe, stone fox, etc. are timeless. Women want to be desired. They have no power over over masculine males, because any woman will trade everything she has for true love. Without that, no female will ever be happy. If she has no man to please, and to desire her for her beauty, to give her children, a name for her children, a house, to support her financially and emotionally, for her to submit to in cheerful obedience, and for whom to bear nurse offspring; preferably manchild; she will become bitter, calloused, vengeful, and ugly!

There is truly no greater curse upon a female than to be childless and supporting herself. That means she couldn't attract a male to give her children, nor support her. That is a sad commentary. Her genetic code, being objectionable to God Almighty, for she failed to use her body in a way pleasing to God: to reproduce God's image; will be forever purged from among the living. She will be utterly forgotten, as if she had never existed. In every generation the genetic code of the wicked is purged, while that of the righteous is preserved. This is why evil can never prevail for long. A hot babe is gentically superior female mating stock.

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Jan 4, 2024 13:31:25   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
awesome14 wrote:
We're talking about a million years of natural selection in which genetic survival and mating traits have been preserved. while inferior traits have died with their owners. At one point there were no laws, governments, courts of law, police; and we can only assume obtaining consent from a female hadn't even been imagined. If anything it would been viewed as an unnecessary and irrelevant impediment to reproduction.

So, the trait im males of just putting a female down on all fours, pushing her cheek to ground, and inseminating her, resulted in superior reproductive ability, and the the trait was preserved through generations. Similarly, women with large, firm, well-formed, pointed-up breasts made desireable mates, because large, firm breasts are higher in mammary--milk producing-- tissue, which produce better nutrition for a.man's children. Well-formed breasts are symmetrical, indicating genetic diversity, communicating to the male that that his offspring will benefit from many immune factors passed to infants through breast milk.

Pointed-up breasts indicated they are unused, which up until the 1960s indicated virginity. Today, they imply virginity. Evolution doesn't react as quickly as rational thought. Implied is the first fruit of the womb is yet to be reaped. These are all superior mating traits. But in order to have his babies take advantage of such breasts, he needs a baby by the owner. Hence, the male mating response to large, firm, well-formed, pointed-up breasts.

Sensual beauty is and unspoken language understood only by masculinity. It is a line item blueprint of the female's relative reproductive and infant-feeding potential. The objective of nude female portraits is to depict genetically superior female mating stock. Men prefer the way God dresses women, because they're religious.

Evolution has not caught up to industrialized civilization. If it had, males would have a mating response to industrial food-processing plants that manufacture infant formula. Sensual beauty is an unspoken language between God and man, the 2 masculine things in the universe. The female is that part of nature created as a gift to the man. So, the male communes with God and nature when viewing sensual beauty.

It is an unspoken promise of new life in the image of married lovers and in the image of God. So, erotic nudes are understandably popular among men. Every truly erotic experience carries with the promise of a divine gift. This was first verbalized in 300B.C.

The wise find it convincing, while the merely clever remain unconvinced. Tattooed females deface their purity as given to them by God. Men who prefer inked females are attracted to rebellion against God, which makes the female an easy target for use as barren flesh to sate the male's primal urge.

Pure females have no ink. They are exactly the way God created them. Men who prefer pure females are attracted to the beauty of innocence; that the girl hasn't had some other guy's jism up her reproductive tract. Such a girl makes a fine obedient wife, who chastity is rewarded by her fertile bounty. She can teach her daughters chastity without indicting herself.

Because of the above, the most valuable depiction of the female is the display of her sensual beauty. Pick up chicks, hot babe, stone fox, etc. are timeless. Women want to be desired. They have no power over over masculine males, because any woman will trade everything she has for true love. Without that, no female will ever be happy. If she has no man to please, and to desire her for her beauty, to give her children, a name for her children, a house, to support her financially and emotionally, for her to submit to in cheerful obedience, and for whom to bear nurse offspring; preferably manchild; she will become bitter, calloused, vengeful, and ugly!

There is truly no greater curse upon a female than to be childless and supporting herself. That means she couldn't attract a male to give her children, nor support her. That is a sad commentary. Her genetic code, being objectionable to God Almighty, for she failed to use her body in a way pleasing to God: to reproduce God's image; will be forever purged from among the living. She will be utterly forgotten, as if she had never existed. In every generation the genetic code of the wicked is purged, while that of the righteous is preserved. This is why evil can never prevail for long. A hot babe is gentically superior female mating stock.
We're talking about a million years of natural sel... (show quote)


I’m dumbfounded. What 18th century rock did you just crawl out from under?

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