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Beautiful Curtis P-40 Warhawk and North American P-51 D Mustang
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Dec 19, 2023 14:44:21   #
bob7fred
 
Beautiful AC

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Dec 19, 2023 15:37:38   #
black mamba
 
robertjerl wrote:
One draw back. The stripes not only kept your side for mistaking you for a target, they told the other side you were a target.


I would think that most defensive gunners have already determined your status and intents way before they could probably even see the stripes.

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Dec 19, 2023 15:44:49   #
black mamba
 
Earnest Botello wrote:
Great set, Tom, the P-51 Mustang is my favorite prop plane.


Thanks, Earnest.

Same for me. I love them all but that Mustang rules the roost.

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Dec 19, 2023 15:45:53   #
black mamba
 
tcthome wrote:


Thanks.

I appreciate the thumbs up.

Tom

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Dec 19, 2023 16:42:32   #
black mamba
 
Alafoto wrote:
Really great photos, Tom, as always. The P-51 has long been my favorite aircraft of WW II. Last time I mentioned them here, I learned something I did not know. I have read thet the P-40 was inferior to the Zero in many ways, but the skill of the AVG pilots made the difference. A great read about the 'Flying Tigers' is "God is My Copilot" By Col. Robert L. Scott.


Hey, Jim. \

You broach an interesting subject. In a nutshell, by almost any measure, the P-40 was definitely inferior to the Zero.
The pilots in the AVG were a pretty good bunch of air warriors. But so were the Japanese....they had been kicking butt in China...they were top rate pilots.

The reason the Flying Tigers prevailed was mostly due to General Chennault. He was a warrior of sorts himself. He ran a tight ship and demanded the top performance from every pilot flying for him. He understood the true nature of the pilots: A partying group,real loose on dress decor, and such. He allowed a rope to the guys but when it came to flying and fighting, you do it his way.

He had one mandate to his pilots that was inviable...." you never, ever, dogfight with a Zero, if you do you're likely to get killed ". The plan of action was this: You attack the enemy from an advantageous position. You fly directly through the group of enemy, shooting at anything you can hit, then you run like hell. you stay around to fight and you probably won't get home. The Japanese eventually left Burma.

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Dec 19, 2023 16:45:17   #
black mamba
 
bob7fred wrote:
Beautiful AC


Thanks for dropping by.

Tom

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Dec 19, 2023 18:22:35   #
MosheR Loc: New York City
 
black mamba wrote:
#1

This P-40 is done up in the colors and nose decorations of the planes that flew with the famous Flying Tigers in WW II. Prior to the U.S. entering the war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, the Japanese forces were on a rampage in China, parts of India, and Burma. In an effort to aid the Chinese Govt., the U.S. sent planes and personnel to the area under the command of retired U. S. General Claire Chennault. All of the pilots in the effort were officially assigned to the American Volunteer Group ( AVG ) and they all were actually volunteers looking for excitement. Some were released from duties in a branch of the U.S. military, others came from varied walks of life. Most were chasing money. They were paid $500 for each enemy plane they shot down.

Most people with an interest in WW II aviation have heard of Greg " Pappy " Boyington, who flew the F4U Corsair with the Marines in the Pacific Theatre of operations. He gained notoriety as the leader of the famous Black Sheep Squadron. Prior to the fame he earned there, he had been a flyer with the Flying Tigers. When that group disbanded, he joined the Marines. He was shot down and was a prisoner of war until the war ended.

#2

I'm often asked what was the reason why broad black and white stripes were painted on American planes fighting in the European Theatre. You see those stripes on this beautiful P-51. They were painted there as a means of self preservation. All of the fighters and some other types of planes that were to be in the air when ( and shortly afterward ) the great D-Day Invasion of France occurring June 6, !944 had these on them. It was to make them easily identified as good-guy planes so itchy ground gunners didn't mistake them for being enemy aircraft. Simple as that.
,
#1 br br This P-40 is done up in the colors and n... (show quote)


Great photos of what planes should look like.

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Dec 19, 2023 19:43:01   #
black mamba
 
MosheR wrote:
Great photos of what planes should look like.


You surprise me with that observation, Mel. I happen to agree with you. What catches me off guard, though, is you being able to type the word "planes " without going into a cold sweat. Now, of course, you might have done that and you just won't tell me.

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Dec 19, 2023 20:13:53   #
MosheR Loc: New York City
 
black mamba wrote:
You surprise me with that observation, Mel. I happen to agree with you. What catches me off guard, though, is you being able to type the word "planes " without going into a cold sweat. Now, of course, you might have done that and you just won't tell me.


Hardy har, har, har, Tom.

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Dec 20, 2023 10:51:40   #
Bushpilot Loc: Minnesota
 
Beautifully photographed, but that Mustang wouldn't be sporting those black and white invasion stripes along with the post 1947 USAF insignia, would it?

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Dec 20, 2023 10:54:26   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
black mamba wrote:
#1

This P-40 is done up in the colors and nose decorations of the planes that flew with the famous Flying Tigers in WW II. Prior to the U.S. entering the war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, the Japanese forces were on a rampage in China, parts of India, and Burma. In an effort to aid the Chinese Govt., the U.S. sent planes and personnel to the area under the command of retired U. S. General Claire Chennault. All of the pilots in the effort were officially assigned to the American Volunteer Group ( AVG ) and they all were actually volunteers looking for excitement. Some were released from duties in a branch of the U.S. military, others came from varied walks of life. Most were chasing money. They were paid $500 for each enemy plane they shot down.

Most people with an interest in WW II aviation have heard of Greg " Pappy " Boyington, who flew the F4U Corsair with the Marines in the Pacific Theatre of operations. He gained notoriety as the leader of the famous Black Sheep Squadron. Prior to the fame he earned there, he had been a flyer with the Flying Tigers. When that group disbanded, he joined the Marines. He was shot down and was a prisoner of war until the war ended.

#2

I'm often asked what was the reason why broad black and white stripes were painted on American planes fighting in the European Theatre. You see those stripes on this beautiful P-51. They were painted there as a means of self preservation. All of the fighters and some other types of planes that were to be in the air when ( and shortly afterward ) the great D-Day Invasion of France occurring June 6, !944 had these on them. It was to make them easily identified as good-guy planes so itchy ground gunners didn't mistake them for being enemy aircraft. Simple as that.
,
#1 br br This P-40 is done up in the colors and n... (show quote)


Another great set Tom which I always enjoy. Pictures are always first class and I really appreciate the research on the history of your subjects. I would offer an alternate rationale for the bold stripes on the Mustang. Contrary to identifying them as the "good guys" it would do just the opposite and camouflage them. Prior to radar, aircraft detection/identification was done visually. Aircraft silhouettes were a common means of identifying friendly and foe. Anything that would break up that silhouette would tend to lead the observer away from seeing an aircraft. You may recall that the navy used this technology to disguise aircraft carriers in the Pacific by painting bold patterns on their sides. This practice carries on to this day as far as aircraft are concerned. PS. My first model airplane was a 15" stick and paper P40 Warhawk.

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Dec 20, 2023 11:05:56   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
black mamba wrote:
Hey, Jim. \

You broach an interesting subject. In a nutshell, by almost any measure, the P-40 was definitely inferior to the Zero.
The pilots in the AVG were a pretty good bunch of air warriors. But so were the Japanese....they had been kicking butt in China...they were top rate pilots.

The reason the Flying Tigers prevailed was mostly due to General Chennault. He was a warrior of sorts himself. He ran a tight ship and demanded the top performance from every pilot flying for him. He understood the true nature of the pilots: A partying group,real loose on dress decor, and such. He allowed a rope to the guys but when it came to flying and fighting, you do it his way.

He had one mandate to his pilots that was inviable...." you never, ever, dogfight with a Zero, if you do you're likely to get killed ". The plan of action was this: You attack the enemy from an advantageous position. You fly directly through the group of enemy, shooting at anything you can hit, then you run like hell. you stay around to fight and you probably won't get home. The Japanese eventually left Burma.
Hey, Jim. \ br br You broach an interesting subje... (show quote)


One of the reasons the Zero was superior was it was lighter. The P40s were armored around the cockpit I believe, and could sustain more damage but you're right about avoiding dog fights.

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Dec 21, 2023 08:58:08   #
black mamba
 
Bushpilot wrote:
Beautifully photographed, but that Mustang wouldn't be sporting those black and white invasion stripes along with the post 1947 USAF insignia, would it?


That's a good observation. This is just my guess but I don't think the owner of that plane was too concerned about that issue. I do know that, in a few cases, pilots elected to keep those stripes on long after the invasion. The restoration work on this plane was at a very high level and I believe the owner just wanted his plane to have the stripes.

Thanks for the visit and for commenting.

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Dec 21, 2023 09:18:55   #
black mamba
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Another great set Tom which I always enjoy. Pictures are always first class and I really appreciate the research on the history of your subjects. I would offer an alternate rationale for the bold stripes on the Mustang. Contrary to identifying them as the "good guys" it would do just the opposite and camouflage them. Prior to radar, aircraft detection/identification was done visually. Aircraft silhouettes were a common means of identifying friendly and foe. Anything that would break up that silhouette would tend to lead the observer away from seeing an aircraft. You may recall that the navy used this technology to disguise aircraft carriers in the Pacific by painting bold patterns on their sides. This practice carries on to this day as far as aircraft are concerned. PS. My first model airplane was a 15" stick and paper P40 Warhawk.
Another great set Tom which I always enjoy. Pictu... (show quote)


Hey, Reuss.

There's all kinds of ways to look at this issue of the stripes. If the pilots themselves bought into the camouflage rationale, why did the vast majority of them want to get the stripes removed as soon as they could ? I remember reading in one of my books wherein Clarence " Bud " Anderson ( a leading ace ) expressed his attitude toward the stripes. Just out of general interest, I'm going to try and dig up his comments.

I hope you're doing well. Merry Christmas to you, my friend.

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Dec 21, 2023 17:03:17   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
black mamba wrote:
That's a good observation. This is just my guess but I don't think the owner of that plane was too concerned about that issue. I do know that, in a few cases, pilots elected to keep those stripes on long after the invasion. The restoration work on this plane was at a very high level and I believe the owner just wanted his plane to have the stripes.

Thanks for the visit and for commenting.


It could always be a veteran of the invasion that survived and was now relegated to training/tow plane or a reserve unit.

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