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My friends revelation about photography
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Nov 18, 2023 16:03:09   #
User ID
 
RodeoMan wrote:
And the mind of the viewer is also important. Then there are the "intangibles that are difficult to quantify.

Real Artists do not give a ratzazz about that "mind of the viewer". Were not out to inspire, reward, elevate, etc some "viewer". Viewers are shown works on take it or leave it terms.

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Nov 18, 2023 21:46:06   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
User ID wrote:
Real Artists do not give a ratzazz about that "mind of the viewer". Were not out to inspire, reward, elevate, etc some "viewer". Viewers are shown works on take it or leave it terms.


Actually I was replying to "old school" who was a former responder on this forum until he got ran out of town. Yes, I know "true artists" such as yourself, are only in it for themselves. However the mind of viewer does come into play when anything and everything is considered and discussed. I have seen your incisive comments on any number of topics, including this one.

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Nov 19, 2023 04:27:36   #
User ID
 
RodeoMan wrote:
Actually I was replying to "old school" who was a former responder on this forum until he got ran out of town. Yes, I know "true artists" such as yourself, are only in it for themselves. However the mind of viewer does come into play when anything and everything is considered and discussed. I have seen your incisive comments on any number of topics, including this one.

This threads topic is the real artist as per the narrative in the opening post. Therefor such incisive incisiveness. The singular viewer who really matters is the author, the others being primarily bystanders and sunbaked roadkill.

HEAT & SERVE
HEAT & SERVE...
(Download)

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Nov 28, 2023 13:25:35   #
Bohica Loc: SE Coast of NC
 
I'm old school film photographer and I know I'm going to ruffle feathers here but to me photography is recording a scene or event, a photographer tries to set up a shot of what he wants to convey, post processing is not photography and people who use it are not photographers. Artist yes or maybe, photographers no

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Nov 28, 2023 13:37:02   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Bohica wrote:
I'm old school film photographer and I know I'm going to ruffle feathers here but to me photography is recording a scene or event, a photographer tries to set up a shot of what he wants to convey, post processing is not photography and people who use it are not photographers. Artist yes or maybe, photographers no


Why would this ruffle feathers. No matter how mis guided some people are, they are still entitled to their wrong assumptions. Even correct assumptions should be considered.



---

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Nov 28, 2023 14:02:26   #
stan0301 Loc: Colorado
 
When I studied with Ansel Adams he said that the image that your camera captures is only the starting point for creating the image that is in your mind - cameras and humans do not see things the same way

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Nov 28, 2023 14:09:31   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
Bohica wrote:
I'm old school film photographer and I know I'm going to ruffle feathers here but to me photography is recording a scene or event, a photographer tries to set up a shot of what he wants to convey, post processing is not photography and people who use it are not photographers. Artist yes or maybe, photographers no


Interesting. I guess if Ernest Hemingway used an eraser and inserted a new phrase, then he wasn't a writer; at least, not in the purest sense. When Harper Lee submitted her drafts to "To Kill a Mockingbird", it was overweight and it was only after heavy but judicious editing that the classic we know to day emerged. As long as Hemingway wasn't inserting Faulkner in his work isn't it still his? This whole discussion soon gets into gray areas, but for me it ultimately means not lying. This does not mean not replacing a sky or cloning out a trash can, but about being truthful where it matters.

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Dec 2, 2023 15:18:38   #
Bohica Loc: SE Coast of NC
 
RodeoMan wrote:
Interesting. I guess if Ernest Hemingway used an eraser and inserted a new phrase, then he wasn't a writer; at least, not in the purest sense. When Harper Lee submitted her drafts to "To Kill a Mockingbird", it was overweight and it was only after heavy but judicious editing that the classic we know to day emerged. As long as Hemingway wasn't inserting Faulkner in his work isn't it still his? This whole discussion soon gets into gray areas, but for me it ultimately means not lying. This does not mean not replacing a sky or cloning out a trash can, but about being truthful where it matters.
Interesting. I guess if Ernest Hemingway used an ... (show quote)


You're talking aet. Photography to me is a visual history. If Hemmingway wrote a book about WW2 and Germany won, that's art not histry, manipulated images are aet, not photography.

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Dec 2, 2023 18:35:20   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Those who can do, do. Those who cannot, complain.

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Dec 3, 2023 03:14:02   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
Bohica wrote:
You're talking aet. Photography to me is a visual history. If Hemmingway wrote a book about WW2 and Germany won, that's art not histry, manipulated images are aet, not photography.


No I'm talking about personal veracity. If Hemingway wrote a book about WWII, which I believe he did and it was a novel then it would be fiction and if he wrote an historical account, then it would be history and that would not be dependent upon whether or not Germany won the war. When you wrote "AET" I presume that you were meaning "Art", but if not I'd would appreciate clarification. I suppose we could get into a whole discussion about whether or not photography was "visual history" or a means of recording history through photographs, just as it can recorded via sound recordings. I am all for making the historic record. Thank you.

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Dec 3, 2023 14:27:41   #
charles brown Loc: Tennesse
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Reads like sarcasm to me...



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Dec 3, 2023 16:10:27   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
r1ch wrote:
I don't buy into any of this bs and that is my opinion. I have heard this opinion before and to me it has nothing to do with reality.

First watching videos, even bad ones, is not a waste of time. Second, trying to emulate is a part of learning. As children emulation as an integrating principle for cognition. We emulate our parents, teachers and experts.

For success wisdom is needed. I like old sayings. My people die for lack of knowledge. Learn from the mistakes of others because you will never live long enough to make them all yourself. Wisdom is the combination of knowledge and experience.

You can gain knowledge through education, learning from others success and failures. Experience comes when you put knowledge to work for you and you gain knowledge this way as well, this produces wisdom. Wisdom is part of the recipe for success. I have heard photo educators who produced excellent images say. Rules are necessary for photography, others say there are no rules, other you must learn the rules so you know how to break them. If you are wise you will understand each comes from a perspective that helped them attain success and all three are correct because experience has show that each one can work.

So to me people who say, you cannot learn by emulating others, bs, that is what children do and it follows through life, or trying to learn how someone else does something is somehow a bad thing and restricts your creativity again, bs, only you can restrict your creativity.

But you must have experience as well, because we learn by doing and experimenting can take us on a road no own else has traveled. Building on the knowledge of others is the key ingredient to innovation, or you will be reinvent the wheel over an over again. I think this letter is idiotic, it suggests emulation does not work. But wisdom proves herself right when knowledge and experience come together motivated by passion and driven by hard work. IMHO of course.
I don't buy into any of this bs and that is my opi... (show quote)


This response is not about what the arguments either you or Dennis made, but rather in the way we all respond to matters we disagree with. In a discussion such as this I see us all sitting around a table with our arguments on the table between us sometimes agreeing and sometimes doing battle with each other. We let our arguments speak for themselves and do not (or should not) hurl personal attacks and insults across the table. If our arguments cannot win the day or at least hold their ground, then we need to re examine them rather than casting aspersions on the individual who is challenging our position. An important corollary to this is not to feel that we are not being personally attacked when someone is pointing our the errors in our position. This is not always easy to do, but way to do this is not to levy a personal attack on the other person. All that said, I agree with your basic arguments; we learn by all sorts of ways.

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