Resolution question - comparing Nikon D850 and Nikon D5
Nov 16, 2023 13:36:22 #
Ysarex
Loc: St. Louis
TriX wrote:
The fact that the vast majority of sports photography was taken by pros using a Nikon D3,4,5,6 or a Canon ID/1DX series until the advent of MILC tells you everything you need to know. When you’re shooting sports, especially indoors or at night, it’s all about high ISO performance and fps, not DR. Big difference in DR at base ISO - none beyond ISO 1000 (where a large percentage of indoor or night images are shot.
I understand that. I've not questioned that. Great camera for high ISO low-light. I just responded that touting the D5's dynamic range especially when compared with the D850 should also note how uniquely bad the D5 is by comparison for general photography if DR matters. Fact is it's hard (maybe impossible) to find a similar vintage FF sensor camera that rates as low. Even an antique Nikon APS D90 has a higher MAX DR rating -- what!?
I don't know what's going on and why the D5's MAX DR rating is so poor. Is that a price paid for it's superior low-light performance? I don't know -- not too interested to pursue it frankly.
Nov 16, 2023 16:43:32 #
Ysarex wrote:
I don't know what's going on and why the D5's MAX DR rating is so poor. Is that a price paid for it's superior low-light performance? I don't know -- not too interested to pursue it frankly.
One of the problems these days is that anything that has a lower measurable 'figure' of something within its specification is stated as "poor" far too often.
Nov 16, 2023 17:52:07 #
Traveller_Jeff wrote:
The NEF output for most of my images from the D850 is at least 50meg
The NEF outuput for most of my images from the D5 is around 25meg.
If the D5 is a better camera and far more expensive than the D850, why is the NEF output resolution apparently so much higher on the D850 than it is on the D5? Is there a major difference in the pixel size? Thank you.
The NEF outuput for most of my images from the D5 is around 25meg.
If the D5 is a better camera and far more expensive than the D850, why is the NEF output resolution apparently so much higher on the D850 than it is on the D5? Is there a major difference in the pixel size? Thank you.
Jeff, You've bought two fine and expensive cameras, I assume you bought them for a reason.
Did you really not know one was a high resolution camera, and one was a lower res super rugged sports /news /action camera. Each of them is great at what they were designed for.
There are lots of folks who would call the D850 the industry high water mark for Best all around DSLR.
Used near base iso it has incredible dynamic range.
For sports/ news, too much resolution slows you down, especially working with wire services. Around 20MP, was picked by both Nikon & Canon as more than enough to create double Truck spreads (a picture that covers two opposite pages across the fold (gutter) . So limiting Megapixels allowed for a faster frame rate when in camera processing was limited.
If you make prints, especially large ones, the D850 is your best camera, if you do studio work, Portraits or Landscapes, the 850 is the better camera. If you shoot sports, spot news or anything requiring the highest FPS,or Low light, then the D5 is the better camera.
How long have you had these cameras, and what drove your purchase decision, I'd be curious to know
Nov 16, 2023 18:03:58 #
My knowledge concerning pixels, size, number, bit depth, files, size, megapixels etc. is limited and woefully inadequate. I would welcome recommendations for sources of education.
Nov 17, 2023 00:01:43 #
MJPerini wrote:
Jeff, You've bought two fine and expensive cameras... (show quote)
I have both a D5 and a D850 Since I have purchased a Z9 I rarely use the D5, although it was a much better work camera than the D850. (Sports and journalism)
The faster frame rate on the D5 is significant. The better performance at high iso is extremely important. The DR of both cameras, not so much. You can always blend exposures, but if you can't shoot in low light then you can't even get the shot.
Some of you are focusing on the wrong things. The cameras both do what they were designed to do. I still use the D5 in low light as a remote camera. I use the D850 when I need to shoot something that has good light and does not require a high frame rate. The D850 is handy because it's file size is approximately the same as the file size for the Z9.
The D5 is great as a remote camera in low light. In that specific situation it will get photos that the D850 simply can not get. As to the performance of the Fuji, I'm sure it's a great camera. I'm also sure that it would not perform as well for my job as the D5 did.
Only reason I ever purchased a D850 was my Z9 was back ordered and my D5 was in the shop for repairs. It needed a new shutter, which seems reasonable since I had shot just under a million shots with it before I had a single problem. Had the Z9 been available when I needed it I would never have purchased a D850, and to tell you the truth although it has it's good points I could certainly live without it.
Nov 17, 2023 03:44:43 #
druthven wrote:
My knowledge concerning pixels, size, number, bit depth, files, size, megapixels etc. is limited and woefully inadequate. I would welcome recommendations for sources of education.
Google is good if you ask the right questions. Try "camera sensor resolution", "camera sensor pixel size", "image file + bit depth".
File size is best split into "uncompressed raw file size" and "compressed image file size" (which covers jpg). Some file types like TIFF, DNG, PNG (and also some raw files) can be uncompressed but don't have to be (they can be compressed in varying degrees). The factors which affect the size of compressed files are not the same factors which affect the size of uncompressed files. To finish off you could google "lossy compression v lossless compression".
Normally bit depth isn't something you have much control over. Your starting point is determined in-camera. But with some photo editors, with some of the editing tools you have to take a drop from 16 bit processing to 8 bit processing. JPG files are 8 bit by definition, and while they can be worked on using 16 bit processing, they revert to being 8 bit when you export or save them as JPG.
Nov 17, 2023 06:59:14 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
u PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE /u br br Do not. DO NOT!... (show quote)
See, I told you.....egg head genius.
Nov 17, 2023 07:04:21 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Just like anyone with a shower can 'prove' water is wet ... but, why would they then ask: how long is a gallon of water?
Paul, I see that one of your listed interests is cooking. Now that's a subject that I'll go head to head with the genius, lol.
Nov 17, 2023 11:35:49 #
A. T. wrote:
Paul, I see that one of your listed interests is cooking. Now that's a subject that I'll go head to head with the genius, lol.
They're letting me take the lead again this year for the Thanksgiving feast. I'll be brining the turkey in buttermilk, salt and herbs for a few days before the Thursday roasting. Several other signature items are included on the menu.
Nov 17, 2023 13:39:36 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
They're letting me take the lead again this year for the Thanksgiving feast. I'll be brining the turkey in buttermilk, salt and herbs for a few days before the Thursday roasting. Several other signature items are included on the menu.
There you go again.....these gourmet recipes for Thanksgiving. Just fry some chicken.
Nov 17, 2023 15:14:53 #
Orphoto wrote:
Nikon's design for the D5 was never to maximize dynamic range overall. Which is why all kinds of cameras test higher at that.
Instead, the goals had more to with operational speed and low light performance. As a result its dynamic range, when measured at higher Iso settings, suddenly become quite impressive.
Instead, the goals had more to with operational speed and low light performance. As a result its dynamic range, when measured at higher Iso settings, suddenly become quite impressive.
Very much my experience among various cameras. DR testing seems to be always be aimed at IQ Geeks who also insist on "zero" noise, thus shooting at lowest ISO.
Thaz why "lab testing" tells me nothing. I hafta make an edumacated guess about any camera, and then I try it out at least 4-digit ISO (and higher) to assess its real world IQ.
Being a good guesser about what to expect, Ive only very rarely had to return a camera.
Nov 17, 2023 23:52:53 #
Walt R
Loc: eastern tn
Hi Jeff , as a D5 shooter , wondering why you need double the pixels . I have a D3x which I use for flowers and landscapes . Just how big are you going to print ? The average person is happy with images to put on the web and uses a cellphone for their photos . As a now retired pro sports photog shooting in jpeg's , I feel as many people that
the best glass makes the difference in a quality image . I do notice using the D3x a slight difference between that body and the D5 which you might find with your D 850 and the D5 . Now in low light nothing beats the D5 , doing sports using auto iso which is all the time for me , even at 25600 there's only a tiny ,tiny bit of noise in the shadows I have never used the D850 , but if the image is properly exposed you don't need to do any PP IMHO . Sending a couple of images done with D5 at high iso .
If I can ever be of help down the road just give a holler .
Happy shooting .
Walt walt@waltphotos.com
the best glass makes the difference in a quality image . I do notice using the D3x a slight difference between that body and the D5 which you might find with your D 850 and the D5 . Now in low light nothing beats the D5 , doing sports using auto iso which is all the time for me , even at 25600 there's only a tiny ,tiny bit of noise in the shadows I have never used the D850 , but if the image is properly exposed you don't need to do any PP IMHO . Sending a couple of images done with D5 at high iso .
If I can ever be of help down the road just give a holler .
Happy shooting .
Walt walt@waltphotos.com
Nov 18, 2023 07:54:23 #
Walt R wrote:
Hi Jeff , as a D5 shooter , wondering why you need... (show quote)
My camera has only 16MP and if I don't crop I do not need any more than that as I don't print anything larger than 11x14. However, there are time I need to crop so yah I could use more MP.
Nov 18, 2023 08:53:03 #
imagextrordinair
Loc: Halden, Norway
Could a lens affect dynamic range? What about the sensors ability to record maximum resolution...
From what I understand about resolution, dynamic range is defined as "the ratio between the largest and smallest recorded signals" that is not obscured by noise. If this is a good definition, then you could say that a sharper lens will produce more dynamic range, because the darker details won't be lost to an extent that they are indistinguishable from noise compared to a lower quality lens with less capabilities.
Lens quality for either camera will sometimes show dynamic range gains and losses. Lighting conditions and the sensors best DR can be further effected by a coatings of the optics and also filters...
From what I understand about resolution, dynamic range is defined as "the ratio between the largest and smallest recorded signals" that is not obscured by noise. If this is a good definition, then you could say that a sharper lens will produce more dynamic range, because the darker details won't be lost to an extent that they are indistinguishable from noise compared to a lower quality lens with less capabilities.
Lens quality for either camera will sometimes show dynamic range gains and losses. Lighting conditions and the sensors best DR can be further effected by a coatings of the optics and also filters...
Nov 18, 2023 09:05:53 #
Walt R
Loc: eastern tn
Hey Jeff , then get the D850 , shoot nef L uncompressed off in 14 bit which will get you the better image and more than likely more resolution . Might have to upgrade the computer . Let me know which direction you went and how do you like it . DXO labs should have the resoution numbers of the two cameras .
Happy shooting .
Walt
Happy shooting .
Walt
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