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External Drives for Backup
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Nov 9, 2023 06:55:48   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
TriX wrote:
Thanks for the nice compliment. In general, my opinion is :

External HDs are unlikely to be as reliable as internal HDs - not always, but usually. Why?
1) it’s difficult to determine the quality of the HD in a prepackaged external, and it’s usually the cheapest drive in the product line.
2) the cooling is unlikely to be as good. There’s likely no fan, and if there is, it’s smaller (lower CFM) and smaller enclosure and external ports to exhaust heat
3) if it has a power supply (not powered by USB from the computer), it’s typically a poorly regulated and protected “wall wart” unlike the higher quality PS in the computer
4) there’s the protocol conversion to USB and back to SATA plus two physical ports, and the USB (or other) cable - all potential failure points, not to mention the USB driver.
5) many/most popular externals are in the $100 or less range. I contend that you cannot build a quality HD, case, interface and power supply, QC it, market it and have the reseller make a mark up for $100.

If you want an external, buy an enterprise quality drive, a case with a fan and a quality power supply, and assemble it. It will take 5 minutes max, you may spend over $100, but it will be quality storage.

Now as far as SSDs vs HDs:

1) the SSD is orders of magnitudes faster in every respect, but you may not need that for backup or archive
2) initial testing shows them to be more reliable than HDs providing it’s made by a reputable manufacturer.
3) smaller, less heat, insensitive to shock/vibration.
4) the limitation on the max number of write/erase cycles is irrelevant for home users. A ITB SSD typically has a spec of 150-600TB written. How many people ever actually write 150 TB to a drive? Nobody, but an enterprise server handling multiple users.
5) although they will retain charge for a LONG time, I’d power it up every now and then.
6) they do fail even if not as often, and when they do, they may fail quickly and be unrecoverable. In fairness, HDs are not cost effective to recover unless the data is VERY valuable, plus, you ought to have another copy or two of your data for backup and disaster recovery anyway.
7) consumer quality HDs are cheaper in terms of $/TB (and enterprise drives less so) tha SSDs, but the cost/TB of SSDs is dropping by ~ 1/2 every year.

The net-net is that if you’re using the drive for the OS and application, the SSD is a no brainer. And if you’re using it to store data, it’s still the best choice unless you have many TBs of data (a quality 2TB SSD is $140 - next year it’s likely that you’ll be able to buy a 4TB for nearly the same price). Personally, all my computers have been all SSDs (including backups) for ~10 years. I use all Intel or Samsung SSDs and have never had a failure - I have 10 year old SSDs made by Intel still in service 24x7x365.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the nice compliment. In general, my opi... (show quote)


Thanks for the Specific, Clear, and Excellent Reply!
Smile,
JimmyT Sends
Bravo Zulu

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Nov 9, 2023 08:07:18   #
Morry Loc: Palm Springs, CA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Well, yes and no. Looking at the statistics from BackBlaze, they are reliable, but SSDs seem to have the overall edge. SSDs do wear out after a certain number of writes, though. An HDD will keep working unless something breaks. As I said above, I am using some that are ten years old.


What should one look for to know if you have a failed backup drive?

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Nov 9, 2023 08:45:02   #
ELNikkor
 
I've always backed up with the 2 technologies, HDD and SSD, keep them in different places in the house. Yearly highlights, (best of the best!) in separate folders, all fit on a high-capacity thumb-drive.

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Nov 9, 2023 08:59:11   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Morry wrote:
What should one look for to know if you have a failed backup drive?


Get CrystalDiskInfo - a free program that gives you lots of info about your drives.

https://crystalmark.info/en/download/

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Nov 9, 2023 09:50:20   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Morry wrote:
What should one look for to know if you have a failed backup drive?


In general, try to read and restore the data. Could you be more specific?

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Nov 9, 2023 10:00:58   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Laramie wrote:
Mostly, I agree completely. But when a SSD fails everything is gone. When a spinning drive fails, it is still possible to retrieve data. I agree, also, that an OS and apps will perform better on a SSD.


Thanks. It’s not always possible to recover the data. If you have a head crash and it takes out the tracks with the MFT/INodes, the data is likely unrecoverable, plus, the cost is in the 1-2K$ range if it is. If you have a local backup and DR copy of your data, it just doesn’t matter.

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Nov 9, 2023 10:21:30   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
TriX: You summed it up, "providing it’s made by a reputable manufacturer."

When buying a HD backup, whether platter or solid state, you do not want to save a few bucks and purchase the least costly one available.

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Nov 9, 2023 10:29:30   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Dikdik wrote:
TriX: You summed it up, "providing it’s made by a reputable manufacturer."

When buying a HD backup, whether platter or solid state, you do not want to save a few bucks and purchase the least costly one available.


Right! You don't want to go cheap on a HDD, a parachute, or a fire extinguisher.

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Nov 9, 2023 10:42:47   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
I just got a bargain 'chute last week... cheap... no strings attached.

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Nov 9, 2023 10:50:28   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Well, yes and no. Looking at the statistics from BackBlaze, they are reliable, but SSDs seem to have the overall edge. SSDs do wear out after a certain number of writes, though. An HDD will keep working unless something breaks. As I said above, I am using some that are ten years old.


SSDs are fairly reliable but you have to consider the failure modes to get the full picture.

A spinner (old style disk) has a rotating disk that contains the data. The failure modes of that sort of medium are both electronic and mechanical. Mechanical damage to the disk is not generally repairable. Electronic damage to the reading system is reparable and the data can be recovered. In an extreme case the disk can be removed an placed in a similar system.

A SSD is purely electronic and the data electronics are integrated with the read electronics. You cannot separate them to repair it. When the SSD fails, the data are gone.

The best strategy to ensure data longevity is duplication. Multiple copies on different drives in different locations.

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Nov 9, 2023 10:57:58   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Dikdik wrote:
TriX: You summed it up, "providing it’s made by a reputable manufacturer."

When buying a HD backup, whether platter or solid state, you do not want to save a few bucks and purchase the least costly one available.

Nope, I get WD Gold drives.
If I put an additional drive in a tower, it's a Gold drive.

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Nov 9, 2023 11:28:42   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
WDs have a good reputation... I had problems with one once... I'll stick with Seagate...

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Nov 9, 2023 11:51:51   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Dikdik wrote:
WDs have a good reputation... I had problems with one once... I'll stick with Seagate...

Seagate Barracuda drives seem to last a long time. I have four that were salvaged from old computers, still running as backup drives.
Back in the day I used WD Caviar drives

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Nov 9, 2023 11:53:52   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
A good unsponsored published reliability metric for HDs is Backblaze’s quarterly reports. They have >225,000 drives in service. Sadly their profit model doesn’t allow them to use enterprise class drives, but if you’re interested in consumer drives, it’s probably the best unbiased data you can find. In general, drive reliability can vary tremendously depending on the specific model and the plant where it’s made. They only use about 3,000 SSDs, so not as large a sample, but the failure rate is less than 1/2 that of HDs in Q2 of this year.

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Nov 9, 2023 12:26:28   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
Nearly all my platter drives are Seagate Ironwolf drives... My latest 20TB is an Ironwolf Pro. It disturbs me a bit that companies offer lesser quality drives for something as important as this.

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