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One for the nay-sayers!
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Oct 15, 2023 13:04:55   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
alexol wrote:
Looks like Toyota will have a battery providing over 900 miles for a 10 minute charge. Bit of a game changer in the EV world.


Game Changer? Then why is Toyota still investing heavily in Hydrogen Fuel Cells???

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Oct 15, 2023 14:37:16   #
Fotoserj Loc: St calixte Qc Ca
 
Fit that in a Tacoma and getting in line

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Oct 16, 2023 09:27:31   #
SteveFranz Loc: Durham, NC
 
Red6 wrote:
Let's not forget that most of us have driven around for the past century or longer with a tank of highly flammable, explosive, and toxic liquid called gasoline. Gasoline vapors can be explosive and set off with any open flame or static spark. Gasoline has often been used as an explosive and incendiary weapon by militaries, arsonists, and terrorists.

We feel safe with gasoline because of our familiarity with it and being around it constantly. But there are plenty of car fires and accidents in the world due to gasoline, and we dismiss them because we are used to them and no longer see them as a real problem. I think few people would allow gasoline to be stored in their garage if they knew the true dangers posed by gasoline.

I recently read an article from a safety official that stated that if gasoline were just being introduced today as a fuel, it would most likely be soundly rejected. It fails spectacularly in most categories considered for use by the public - it is highly flammable, explosive, possibly carcinogenic, and toxic to most living things. In addition, its production and use are destructive to the environment in multiple ways.

The lack of understanding of the dangers of gasoline is much like traffic accidents. People are quick to worry about flying and airline accidents which kill very few people in the US. However, in the US alone there are 30,000+ people killed in auto accidents each year and the fact is barely mentioned or even noticed.
Let's not forget that most of us have driven aroun... (show quote)


Not only that, many of us cook with a very explosive gas - Natural gas, LPG, Propane. Even more flammable and explosive than gasoline because it is a gas rather than a liquid.

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Oct 16, 2023 10:09:28   #
alexol
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Game Changer? Then why is Toyota still investing heavily in Hydrogen Fuel Cells???


Game changer does not mean 'end of game'.

Their agreement - and it is nothing more that that at present - is simply a possible future scenario based on a huge improvement over existing battery technology, as are several other options.

And yes, Toyota is still investing heavily in hydrogen research, as well as at least two other under-wraps technologies not yet talked about.

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Oct 16, 2023 10:26:19   #
alexol
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Typically a car with a range of 300 miles would have around 70kWh battery if not more. Now with over 900 miles the battery must be over 200kWh. The batteries used in EV are some 400V and some 800V. Assuming that this battery is 1000V then to charge the battery fully in 10 minutes the charger must deliver at least 2400A at 1000V.


This is an equation with which Toyota is "probably" familiar.

Equally obviously, they must have found a way, short-cut, of some kind, since, as you point out, 2400A @ 1000v is not remotely a realistic possibility.

It's been interesting reading some of the comments in the thread. I'm always amused by how some people will quickly adapt to new technology in cameras (mostly unused by most people, but it's shiny and new so let's buy it) but decry and denigrate concepts they don't want to think about or understand.

99.9% of the population has no serious clue about all it takes, the unbelievable cost and huge effort by hundreds of thousands of people, to get that gallon of gas into a vehicle, nor all the processes that make controlling that air/gas explosion useful, yet still bleat on about how it must be maintained.

Oil has had a wonderful ride - and I loved working in the industry for 40+ years - but it's time to move on.

Technology, with it's many faces, is like a freight train coming down the tracks. Good, bad or indifferent, it's on its way as an unstoppable.

King Canute would have understood.

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Oct 16, 2023 10:32:32   #
BebuLamar
 
alexol wrote:
This is an equation with which Toyota is "probably" familiar.

Equally obviously, they must have found a way, short-cut, of some kind, since, as you point out, 2400A @ 1000v is not remotely a realistic possibility.

It's been interesting reading some of the comments in the thread. I'm always amused by how some people will quickly adapt to new technology in cameras (mostly unused by most people, but it's shiny and new so let's buy it) but decry and denigrate concepts they don't want to think about or understand.

99.9% of the population has no serious clue about all it takes, the unbelievable cost and huge effort by hundreds of thousands of people, to get that gallon of gas into a vehicle, nor all the processes that make controlling that air/gas explosion useful, yet still bleat on about how it must be maintained.

Oil has had a wonderful ride - and I loved working in the industry for 40+ years - but it's time to move on.

Technology, with it's many faces, is like a freight train coming down the tracks. Good, bad or indifferent, it's on its way as an unstoppable.

King Canute would have understood.
This is an equation with which Toyota is "pro... (show quote)


I did a little wrong with my calculation. It should be 1200A but still it's a lot.

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Oct 16, 2023 10:35:06   #
alexol
 
In real terms, charging a car at 1200A or 2400A @1000v is more or less the same thing, i.e., not going to happen;)

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Oct 16, 2023 12:33:22   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
alexol wrote:
In real terms, charging a car at 1200A or 2400A @1000v is more or less the same thing, i.e., not going to happen;)


Exactly - that’s way more power than a standard pole transformer (pole pig) can deliver.

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Oct 16, 2023 20:31:35   #
Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
alexol wrote:
…..


Just remember to pull the car backwards and then let go!

Weeeee!

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Oct 17, 2023 09:09:00   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Geezer wrote:
I sure wouldn't keep it in my garage (nor the entire neighborhood). From my High School Physics class I learned that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Calculate the Kilowatts required to move a mass (vehicle) over 900 miles and think of all this energy stored in a small box. Think of all the fires they've had with pretty small batteries (e-scooters and bikes, etc)


The solid state batteries are much safer. They contain no liquid and that reduces the fire hazard to almost zero. Of course there is an exception to everything but solid state batteries are exponentially safer than regular lithium batteries.

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Oct 17, 2023 12:10:26   #
Geezer Loc: Capreol, Ontario, Canada
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
The solid state batteries are much safer. They contain no liquid and that reduces the fire hazard to almost zero. Of course there is an exception to everything but solid state batteries are exponentially safer than regular lithium batteries.


Maybe so, but many people have witnessed or heard of accidents when jump starting a vehicle and reversed the cables. A dead short is still a dead short whether its lead-acid, or lithium. With that much current involved it'll a scary situation...

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