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Am I overthinking this?
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Sep 9, 2023 13:48:33   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
wmurnahan wrote:
I'm a photographer, for me, part of the hobby is the challenge of capturing not creating. Getting the perfect shot is what brings a smile to my face. If I was a graphic designer, needing to come up with specific content, it would be AI all the way but I'm a photographer.



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Sep 9, 2023 13:56:06   #
tgreenhaw
 
Sometimes photographs are meant to record unvarnished reality, but other times a tool in the hands of an artist.

Sounds like you have uncovered you inner artist.

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Sep 9, 2023 13:56:21   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
dpullum wrote:
alphonso49uk said " Ive always thought those views were from the dark ages."
Yes, SOOC people thought God lived and saw in the camera, even digital was unholy compared to Film.

We are undergoing like what in the early 20 century was the Industrial Revolution ... now the AI tech revolution~!

alphonso49uk said "document reality or to create a specific image?"
The Camera Club assignment was glass, I went to a studio and photographed. I submitted a large view, ovens, trash cans, etc and a woman blowing glass, good documentation like a crime scene. Ouch low points... the next month I did a close crop of front half of face and the glass she was blowing... aaaa hi score. as alphonso49uk stated the competition between document reality vs a specific image... the specific story image won.

alphonso49uk said "yet still feel slightly guilty that something I didn't take with a camera has been so well received."
Guilty vs Frightened and in awe. I think in awe is the reaction... You could ask Sophia Robot what she thinks and she would compile a tell-it-like-it-is answer based on a vast network of information, and her compiled more than human human-answer. Eventually, men will go to Sophia for their live in companion soothing both physical and psychological/social. Imagine Sophia la R at a business meeting with her physical and interactive quick charm. And of Course, in Sophia Golem's** idle time will be spent writing award winning novels, and creating art, similar to alphonso49uk's wonderful minds eye photo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(robot)

** Golem, an artificial human being in Hebrew folklore endowed with life
alphonso49uk said b " Ive always thought tho... (show quote)


First off, dpullum, don't start thinking that you know what is in the head of a SOOC photographer! I'm one of those, although my claim to fame is "90% SOOC". 99% of my photos fit that category.
And you would be amazed and perhaps frightened to know what is in my head!!
I have no problem with manipulated photos, as long as they are labelled as such. Although most of them are very obvious and don't need to be labelled! I choose not to participate in Photo Shop style manipulation to the point of destruction! I'm a photographer, not a computer graphics bubba.

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Sep 9, 2023 14:10:54   #
RolandDieter
 
Another generation and AI will be the norm. Nobody will give it a second thought. Actually taking pictures may even seem quaint. Meanwhile, I am facing the same internalized debate as you are. Maybe we should simply view AI art as art, not as photography.

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Sep 9, 2023 14:14:28   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
plumbbob1 wrote:
My photo instructor taught that the picture should be made in the viewfinder.

For years I agreed and did it his way.
But, no more.
I think you should feel guilty if you didn't use every tool available to make the picture the best it can be.

That's where I always start, still. The viewfinder is the "frame" for my image, as it would be on a wall.

Sometimes I tweak them, sometimes I don't.

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Sep 9, 2023 14:41:03   #
User ID
 
rcarol wrote:
I'm going to comment on the image rather than how it was created. I really think the image is provocative and as such, it makes no difference to me how it was generated. I would be more interested in knowing what was going on in your life and mind at the time you chose to make this image.

I have a really similar reaction, but Id rather leave the "why" type of question unanswered. Would be terribly disappointing if the reveal was "reaction to something I probably should not have eaten" !


(Download)

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Sep 9, 2023 14:51:52   #
User ID
 
RolandDieter wrote:
Another generation and AI will be the norm. Nobody will give it a second thought. Actually taking pictures may even seem quaint. Meanwhile, I am facing the same internalized debate as you are. Maybe we should simply view AI art as art, not as photography.

Obsolete question there ....
REAL photography ended at the tintype.

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Sep 9, 2023 14:56:51   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
User ID wrote:
I have a really similar reaction, but Id rather leave the "why" type of question unanswered. Would be terribly disappointing if the reveal was "reaction to something I probably should not have eaten" !


It's cute - and like most things I see in life, it makes me hungry

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Sep 9, 2023 15:05:50   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
User ID wrote:
As to the inside story of how some particular image was created, I might or might not be moved to inquire. But whenever I choose to inquire it certainly will not be a dichotomous ask of "AI, or not AI". Such a pitiful scrap of "information" is useless and meaningless.


Two real grabbers

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Sep 9, 2023 15:05:58   #
User ID
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
What's wrong with "AI generated image"? It says it was created with AI, but differentiates it from other forms of AI, and doesn't call it a photograph.

The thing you feel need to name may already have a name. Seems to fall within "CGI", and that term is far from new or recent.

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Sep 9, 2023 15:10:06   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
alphonso49uk wrote:
So Ive never been one of those photographers who think its OK to do basic editing to a photo but that anything more major is cheating....the mentality that says replacing a background or a sky doesnt reflect on what was actually seen at the time of pressing the shutter button and therefore isnt a true photograph. Ive always thought those views were from the dark ages.
The other day I thought Id investigate AI for the first time. I typed in a fairly lengthy description of what I wanted it to come up with....key words etc and then pushed the ok button. I was amazed to find it was more or less exactly what I envisaged in the first place.
I added it to my Flickr photostream but only placed it into a few specific groups designed for AI images.
Id already tagged it as AI generated and the only other thing I did in photoshop was to decrease the size of the bottle in the pic.
Later that day I discovered that it had been chosen as a photo to be included in Flickr explore and that it had recieved several thousand views and a couple of hundred Faves.
I never received any negative feedback...quite the opposite infact...and yet still feel slightly guilty that something I didnt take with a camera has been so well received.
What do other hoggers think?
So Ive never been one of those photographers who t... (show quote)

You should advertise it as a beautiful piece of art! Not a photograph

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Sep 9, 2023 15:14:49   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Captain Bernie wrote:
Great, really dramatic, AI-enhanced photo ! Bravo Zulu !

AI is just another tool in our kit. That tool can be used productively and imaginatively, or it can be abused or mis-used. We must learn to take advantage of its potential and possibilities.

Bernie

How can it be mid-used? Anything goes

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Sep 9, 2023 15:30:53   #
User ID
 
larryepage wrote:
Probably a couple of honest terms might be Machine Assisted Imaging or Machine Generated Imaging.
Interesting attempt at developing an honest or accurate term.

"Machine Assisted Imaging" must definitely include snaps from a Box Brownie or a Fuji Instax, and I dont think thaz what youre after.

"Machine Generated Imaging" does not imply use of AI, or even use of a digital device. Ive done that with film cameras. If you substitute the word "Computer" instead of "Machine" you get "CGI". And, hey !!! Doesnt "CGI" have a verrrry familiar ring to it ?! Maybe youre more than a little bit late to the party ?

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Sep 9, 2023 15:34:16   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
alphonso49uk wrote:
So Ive never been one of those photographers who think its OK to do basic editing to a photo but that anything more major is cheating....the mentality that says replacing a background or a sky doesn't reflect on what was actually seen at the time of pressing the shutter button and therefore isnt a true photograph. Ive always thought those views were from the Dark Ages.
The other day I thought I'd investigate AI for the first time. I typed in a fairly lengthy description of what I wanted it to come up with.... keywords etc and then pushed the OK button. I was amazed to find it was more or less exactly what I envisaged in the first place.
I added it to my Flickr photostream but only placed it into a few specific groups designed for AI images.
I already tagged it as AI-generated and the only other thing I did in Photoshop was to decrease the size of the bottle in the pic.
Later that day I discovered that it had been chosen as a photo to be included in Flickr Explore and that it had received several thousand views and a couple of hundred Faves.
I never received any negative feedback...quite the opposite in fact...and yet I still feel slightly guilty that something I didn't take with a camera has been so well received.
What do other hoggers think?
So Ive never been one of those photographers who t... (show quote)


"Overthinking this" is an understatement!

First of all, the entire creative photographic world is not a giant photo contest, competition, or camer club with stringent rules to restrict any process. Every photographer is not a photojournalist.

You have the right to categorize yourself as you please. Are you a photograhic artist, illustrator, commercial photoghraer, storyteller, or documentarian, or can you be all of these on different days of the week? It's up to you.

The image you posted tells a powerful story. It would be a superb jacket for a book on addiction or homelessness. A great illustration! There is nothing to be guilty of unless you enter that image into a competition that somehow restricts altering or enhancing the images in any way. If you wanted to make a statement with that image, you succeeded by doing waht you had to tell the story!

Obviously, REAL photojournalists certainly should adhere to ethical standards, especially in this era of some media misinformation.

AI, in and of itself is not intrinsically dishonest. Like every other technology and everythg else, it is the dishonest PEOPLE who use these methods and devices for dishonest and unethical purposes. Misrepresentation, forgery, fraud, and plagiarism have been around long before high technology. All the latest tech just makes it easier for the bad guys!

If you do your photography for self-expression, for the sake of art, for fun, or wahtever, do not impose unnecessary rules on yourself, tha is, unless you want to drive yourself crazy. If you enter competitions, stick to the rules. If you get a creative idea CREATE! Two synonyms for "create" are "Originate and Fabricate".

Some commercial and professional photographers in various specialties may worry about being replaced by AI. Perhaps they will have to up their game and produce stuff that the machines and robots can not. If you do not do photography commercially, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. You can shoot digital, film, even coat your own emulsion, and go back to the wet plate. You can shoot SOOTC or edit your head off or anything in between. Some will give up the ghost and say "If you can't fight 'em, join 'em, and become AI technicians instead of photographers. AI is gonna become an important part of graphic arts.

The thing I LOVE about AI is that it will replace the arguments about filters, RAW vs. Jpeg, DSLR vs. mirrorless, and SOOTC vs. post-processing. A friend of mine who has a thriving wedding photography business was crabbing about AI taking over the industry. I told him, as yet, I don't think they invented a robot that can shoot a wedding- it would likely fall apart or sef district! If, however, he happens to find one, I might need a new assistant- the old one is aging and is complaining of too much heavy gear!

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Sep 9, 2023 15:35:45   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
billnikon wrote:
I used to think along your line of thought. My sister in law is an artist and we have had many discussions about this topic. We finally came to the realization that if the artist can create what they envision, why shouldn't the photographer be able to do the same.
I love my neighborhood Osprey nest, I have several images of them landing, but wanted those images to be more dramatic. So I started to play with sky replacement in Photoshop. I really liked the results I was getting.
AI is a tool to help the photographer reach their potential. The artist's AI is in their mind and hand, the photographer's AI is in the computer. NO difference in my opinion.
I used to think along your line of thought. My sis... (show quote)


A truly phenomenal, magnificent collaboration with nature on your part 🏆🏆👑🏆🏆

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