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Clarification on question about monochrome sensor versus color
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Aug 25, 2023 12:39:48   #
MJPerini
 
Ultimately you can find examples of superior work using every permutation you can think of (monochrome sensor , color sensor, converted sensor with or without UV, IR filters or scanned film) you can find bad work as well. There are many personal answers to this but no universal one. You have to do what makes sense to You, and now worry about what others might think. The work will be its own reward…….or not. If it is, great, if not you learned something.
Since you did satisfying work with a Leica , consider renting a monochrome for a week or two.
Good luck

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Aug 25, 2023 14:23:08   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
dkeysser wrote:
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and a couple of snarky ones that I ignored). Let me clarify - I do not want to shoot B&W photos of colorful items, like red roses. If I want to shoot a photo of a red rose, it will be in color. The reason I am attracted to monochrome is for shots of things that have little color: old derelict buildings in the evening, nightime downtown shots, desert scenes, night clubs and concerts. I grew up shooting grainy gritty B&W shots on a Leica (Tri-X, D76 1:1) of nighttime street scenes, and that is what I want to recreate. Given that, does any have different suggestions and ideas than posted earlier? Thanks again.
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and ... (show quote)


When I get back to Film [have cameras & Lenses from the 90's]
It will be for Available Light B&W.

Prices & availability for B/W Film & Development seem to be improving. I guess I could always do my own Development again.

Somehow this seems to be more affordable!

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Aug 25, 2023 14:26:00   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Why not just shoot B&W film? I didn't follow all the nonsense of the earlier thread, but I firmly believe the best results come from processing the digital files, not throwing (wasting) money into a sensor conversion. But, hey, it's your money to flush down the toilet as desired.

CHG_CANON:

Yes, sensor conversion is SO much cheaper & simpler with Film!

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Aug 25, 2023 17:08:01   #
Canisdirus
 
I never said they were necessary all of the time...but in todays market...shooting in B&W...limits you.

Now if you want to get ahead of the best mirrorless...in B&W...you'll have to go to Leica.

Otherwise...shoot in color...if you have a good modern mirrorless that is.

If you don't...who cares...do what you want.

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Aug 25, 2023 17:30:28   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
dkeysser wrote:
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and a couple of snarky ones that I ignored). Let me clarify - I do not want to shoot B&W photos of colorful items, like red roses. If I want to shoot a photo of a red rose, it will be in color. The reason I am attracted to monochrome is for shots of things that have little color: old derelict buildings in the evening, nightime downtown shots, desert scenes, night clubs and concerts. I grew up shooting grainy gritty B&W shots on a Leica (Tri-X, D76 1:1) of nighttime street scenes, and that is what I want to recreate. Given that, does any have different suggestions and ideas than posted earlier? Thanks again.
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and ... (show quote)
If you want to shoot monochrome then either shoot film or if you can afford it buy a dedicated monochrome digital camera.

You don't have to explain why you want to shoot monochrome, it's a beautiful art form and it's not limited to drab subjects.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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Aug 25, 2023 17:55:53   #
smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL
 
Canisdirus wrote:
You will get the same answer...

Shooting in color gives you an immense flexibility in post processing...shooting in B&W...doesn't.

You shoot in color...PP in B&W...simple...easy...and better.


Ultimately that’s a matter of opinion - for me using a converted camera is neither simple nor easy but very much better. Sometimes very difficult and sometimes way better than anything I could get from 35mm film.

I’ve found that a FX monochrome camera can take images comparable to a large format camera. I also would note that getting really good results from either can be quite difficult.

The attached image was shot with a Nikon/LDP D850M-FS with a Nikkor 24-70 f2.8 with a LDP VPB filter. I also took images with a Nikon Z9 Nikkor Z 24-70 f2.8 in color a few seconds after this one. The monochrome images were better. For me.


(Download)

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Aug 25, 2023 18:02:47   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Get the Leica M11 Monochrom then you can shoot night time street scenes just like the old days.


If you have $6,000 or so.

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Aug 25, 2023 18:22:03   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
JD750 wrote:
If you want to shoot monochrome then either shoot film or if you can afford it buy a dedicated monochrome digital camera.

You don't have to explain why you want to shoot monochrome, it's a beautiful art form and it's not limited to drab subjects.

If you take a color picture and then wonder whether it would look better in B&W you are following the wrong workflow, cart before the horse.

Someone with experience in B&W images is likely to know before they click the shutter if the image should be rendered in B&W or color.

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Aug 25, 2023 18:44:52   #
User ID
 
dkeysser wrote:
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and a couple of snarky ones that I ignored). Let me clarify - I do not want to shoot B&W photos of colorful items, like red roses. If I want to shoot a photo of a red rose, it will be in color. The reason I am attracted to monochrome is for shots of things that have little color: old derelict buildings in the evening, nightime downtown shots, desert scenes, night clubs and concerts. I grew up shooting grainy gritty B&W shots on a Leica (Tri-X, D76 1:1) of nighttime street scenes, and that is what I want to recreate. Given that, does any have different suggestions and ideas than posted earlier? Thanks again.
Guys, I received some very helpful responses (and ... (show quote)

Looks like, as usual, Hogsters are refusing to address your actual query. So I will do it cuz you and I have real overlap in our work. The bottom line is that YOU will get no benefit from a monochrome camera. Somebody else maybe will, but you dont need one.

Like you, I often shoot scenes with verrrrry little apparent color, and usually I leave them as color, altho I sometimes partially further desaturate them to get even weaker colors. Occasionally I fully desaturate them to mono for a result thaz just slightly different.

I find zero reasons to want a special mono camera for this type of scenes. Theres so little color in the first place that editing to a "BW Conversion" isnt changing much at all. For such a minor change vs the real world scene what good is a specialized camera ?

I dont compare my slight conversions to any result from any mono camera that I dont own. But I can compare it to my burned in human experience in professional BW darkrooms. IOW no geeky lab testing, just a verrrrrry expert experienced professional eye. (Yes, I really can print like Adams or White.)

For your needs, of converting "almost mono" to full mono, you cant really improve on just editing out that final vestigal color in PP.

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Aug 25, 2023 18:57:46   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Lots of interesting B&W examples. Hopefully, all those adding examples are also subscribed to the B&W section:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/s-140-1.html

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Aug 25, 2023 20:21:57   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
selmslie wrote:
They weren't always necessary.

As I recall, there wasn't any blue sky actually showing in the image. I just knew from experience that the clouds would have a little more definition with the yellow filter.

Here is another example where no filter was used because the sky was a complete washout, common in Scotland.

This was taken with an F3, probably on Kodak TechPan. The color the grass would have distracted the viewer from the reason I took the picture. I would make the same decision today.
They weren't always necessary. br br As I recal... (show quote)


Nice. I've used Kodak Technical Pan Film a few times back in the day.

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Aug 26, 2023 01:33:43   #
Canisdirus
 
josquin1 wrote:
If you have $6,000 or so.


If you want to get professional results...yes.

Hobby results...conversion.

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Aug 26, 2023 03:14:04   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
dpullum wrote:
Try Topaz B&W-2. The program converts color to BW but you can select the color filter you would have had on your BW camera. There is a grain additive. "4. This final steps is for applying important finishing touches to your image. It includes toning, vignettes, grain and more"

Go to the site to see your new BW camera:
https://topazlabs.com/bweffects_static/quickstart.pdf


Even better is Nik B&W Effex, which has presets to recreate the gamma, tonality and grain of most all the monochrome films of yesteryear. It's now paid, but with a little research the older free version can still be found for download.

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Aug 26, 2023 03:46:59   #
Canisdirus
 
kymarto wrote:
Even better is Nik B&W Effex, which has presets to recreate the gamma, tonality and grain of most all the monochrome films of yesteryear. It's now paid, but with a little research the older free version can still be found for download.


I use the Nik 6 (silver efex)...it's very good and yes the film profiles are all in there.

I can now alter the colors within the B&W to my satisfaction in Adobe...and cruise on over to Nik for the finish up.

I can flip back and forth if I need to reduce or boost a color...within the B&W image.

Maximum flexibility...shooting color and using Nik silver efex.

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Aug 27, 2023 09:45:47   #
BebuLamar
 
josquin1 wrote:
If you have $6,000 or so.


Well it's more than $6000 but then the OP was using a Leica for B&W film so it's only appropriate to use a B&W Leica digital.

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