Latest Shooting (Page 10): Adolf.....is that you?

cameraniac Loc: Huntingburg, Indiana

gerry908 wrote:

You may be right Pepper but if you are, are all (or most) of the news we hear of the massacres in America wrong? Because if they are, the Government should be shutting them down for misleading information

Adolf.....is that you?

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Of course the media will be misleading in many respects due to the particular bias of those assembling and editing the facts. As long as humans report the news or events it will naturally contain some level of bias and thereby be to some extent misleading. Not necessarily inaccurate but generally slanted one way or another.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Bunko.T wrote:

quote=Bangee5 quote=gerry908 I was watching the ... (show quote)

You mess with me and mine you get a gun in your face - that simple. Would you try me knowing I have a gun? Would you touch one of mine knowing I will blow your head off? It is because we love our Children more than the gun that we fight for the right to bear arms to protect our love ones.

crazy4thread Loc: Minnesota

gerry908 wrote:

Bmac wrote:

Canonuser wrote:

Listening to you and your ilk trying to defend the indefensible is a most pathetic exercise, but one we unfortunately have to put up with, along no doubt with future massacres

Personal jabs at me will not bolster your argument, and you do not have to "put up" with opinions contrary to your own here, simply leave this thread and go elsewhere, post some photos maybe. 8-)

Canonuser wrote:

This of course is the ultimate response from one trying to defend the indefensible when they realise their argument is totally lost.

No, not the "ultimate response," simply attempting to point out that personal pokes at myself and my "ilk" (whomever they are) do not help define an argument. Maybe you disagree.

Anyway, as to your contentions, this is how I responded:

Bmac wrote:

quote=Canonuser If the 'others' are 'bad guys' as... (show quote)

Bmac wrote:

Canonuser wrote:

Even where I am now in South Africa that has seen the worst apartheid violence and now horrible murders related to drugs, etc in the Townships there is no demand to be armed, the firearms laws here being virtually identical to the UK.

Therefore, those firearm laws have not worked where you are now. I believe the homicide rate by firearms is considerably higher in South Africa than the United States, yet, in your opinion, the gun laws are "virtually identical in the UK." Do you understand the contradiction?

Perhaps, as you say, there is no "demand to be armed" in South Africa. If I lived there I would most certainly wish a weapon to defend myself and family.

Here is something to ponder:

Research conducted by Professors James Wright and Peter Rossi, for a landmark study funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, points to the armed citizen as possibly the most effective deterrent to crime in the nation. Wright and Rossi questioned over 1,800 felons serving time in prisons across the nation and found:

81% agreed the "smart criminal" will try to find out if a potential victim is armed.
74% felt that burglars avoided occupied dwellings for fear of being shot.
80% of "handgun predators" had encountered armed citizens.
40% did not commit a specific crime for fear that the victim was armed.
34% of "handgun predators" were scared off or shot at by armed victims.
57% felt that the typical criminal feared being shot by citizens more than he feared being shot by police.

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

Excerpt from : http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm

quote=Canonuser Even where I am now in South Afri... (show quote)

You may comment on the post or answer my questions, certainly that is up to you. Have a nice day. 8-)

quote=Bmac quote=Canonuser Listening to you and ... (show quote)

Then why is the death rate of innocent people so high?

If, by the survey, felons are afraid of being shot, why are there so many killings in America?

Australia isn't crime free by any stretch of the imagination but there are very few deaths caused by guns but I think that if we had the same access to firearms that America does, the death rate would go through the roof.

This Post isn't intended to inflame gun owners but an attempt to fathom why the death rates by guns are so high? If the Felons say that they're afraid of being shot, whose doing the shooting?

quote=Bmac quote=Bmac quote=Canonuser Listening... (show quote)

so at this point in America if we were forced to turn in our guns and it was illegal to own guns, do you really think criminals would turn in their guns? Just wondering how you think this would/should play out?

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

You just don't get it do you? The bottom line is that the USA is the only country in the World with such ridiculous laws relating to gun possession. It is also the only country in the World that has a succession on school massacres. It is sickening that no one there makes the obvious connection and stops this cycle of killings. You seem resigned to merely put up with this dreadful situation attempting to justify it with some outdated constitutional point. You seem to ignore the fact that such slaughter does not happen elsewhere in the World because the laws relating to gun possession almost always ensure that unstable people cannot get their hands on firearms. This is not the case in the USA and it is sickening that all you do is try to justify the situation by throwing up smoke screens with verbose statements and diatribe, but fail to address the obvious, clear and basic problem you have in your own country concerning gun possession.

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

That is absolute rubbish. Analyse the facts. My research indicates that none of the perpetrators of these killings would have been classed as criminals before carrying out the massacres they did.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Canonuser wrote:

That is absolute rubbish. Analyse the facts. My research indicates that none of the perpetrators of these killings would have been classed as criminals before carrying out the massacres they did.

But they would be classed as mentally ill.

Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.

Canonuser wrote:

You just don't get it do you? The bottom line is t... (show quote)

Wrong in so many ways. First with millons of guns in the hands of responsable americans. And millons in the hands of of the unwashed. there is now no way anyone could ever hope to take the guns off us here in america. Just would not happed. That ship sailed many many years ago.Way too late to reverse history. Now, Just look back on the dictators in the world. Hitler being one of them. If those folks were armed a lot of many thousands of people could have fought back. If our minit men weren't armed we would still be under the control of the king. No thanks we will keep our guns and just watch how quickley we come togather when we are threatend. Our goverment knows this and they can only push us so far. You see and hear us fighting amoungest ourselves Over witch party we suport but we will fight to the death for our freedom. When push comes to shove we will forget our differances and fight side by side. The nuts we have in this country used to be kept behind closed doors. But our goverment put them back on the street. I think it was back in the fiftys. Many of them became homeless. Crime became ramped in some places. These people had to eat and couldnt work so they just took what they needed to servive. Hitler wanted to do away with these people. A dictators way of handling things. No thanks we will hang on to our guns thank you.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Canonuser wrote:

You just don't get it do you? The bottom line is t... (show quote)

Heres an interesting slant on this. Each of Americas states is a big as most industrialized countries so if you re-label our states and call them countries youd get a far better apples to apples comparison. In each of our 50 countries viewed individually youd have a very low incident rate. America is a big place and to compare our crimes quantitatively to some dinky ass little place like the UK is asinine

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

I will never fail to be amazed at the pathetic coments that are being made here attempting to justify the unjustyable, when the sad fact is none of them are addressing the main problem you and no other country has and that is the problem of school massacres. It is so obvious from most of your responses, that as I thought, you gun slingers just don't care about them. So sad really

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Canonuser wrote:

I will never fail to be amazed at the pathetic coments that are being made here attempting to justify the unjustyable, when the sad fact is none of them are addressing the main problem you and no other country has and that is the problem of school massacres. It is so obvious from most of your responses, that as I thought, you gun slingers just don't care about them. So sad really

That's just stupid plain and simple. We care as much as you do and our hearts are as heavy as yours our churches and homes are full of prayers and tears for all those affected by this evil SOB but the problem is evil men not guns. You are the one who just doesn't get it. You think we'd all be safer if we only allowed criminals and nut jobs to be armed and the law abiding citizen to be defenseless. Good plan.

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

If the evil men, as you call them found it far more difficult to get the guns, as they do in other countries, the problems would be far less, but from your responses, I cannot expect you to undertand this basic logic. So just keep handing out the guns and accept the deaths, proving beyond all doubt how little you do actually care. You make all the right noises, but then do abolsutely nothing.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

I really hate to jump down in the sewer with you but Ill allow myself to get a little smelly here. I have a hunch based on your sniveling drivel that you were the kid that anytime someone picked on you youd run home to mommy with your tail between your legs expecting her to protect you. Let me tell you something you obviously dont understand, most Americans will stand our ground and if you need a boot in your ass well gladly oblige and by the way you and your ilk have benefited from our willingness to stand up on more than one occasion and by the way youre welcome.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Canonuser wrote:

If the evil men, as you call them found it far more difficult to get the guns, as they do in other countries, the problems would be far less, but from your responses, I cannot expect you to undertand this basic logic. So just keep handing out the guns and accept the deaths, proving beyond all doubt how little you do actually care. You make all the right noises, but then do abolsutely nothing.

There is something you seem to be missing. Okay, take away all gun so that no one can have a gun, even the bad guys. That makes us safe? Hammer, knife, baseball bat, etc. If some one is intent on killing another human being, they will do so by any means, even with a car. So now what?

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

My wife has just happened to read through some of these postings and asked me why I argued with idiots when they would eventually drag me down to their level and then beat me with their experience. Of course she is perfectly right, I had just failed to spot it.