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What do you get for $13000 versus about $2000?
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Aug 8, 2023 08:15:13   #
clemente21
 
I would say that although image quality is superior by just being a prime lens, such lens provides you with the speed to freeze action at lower light. Perhaps it might help to hear from the photographers themselves.

https://kevinlisota.photography/2019/10/photographing-an-nfl-football-game/
https://www.adorama.com/alc/mlb-playoffs-baseball-photography/
https://www.jeanfruthimages.com/portfolio/G0000JkPKtv_HnNQ/I0000I2Hm89vzpLk

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Aug 8, 2023 08:22:25   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Robertl594 wrote:
I have always been of the belief that one should put their money into their glass, especially now that the cameras are pretty much all good. I am also guilty of spending the money for the pro long lenses. Here is my rationale:

IQ is extremely important. Fast glass is very important, focusing speed, and resolving power is critical. Without these qualities, you are compromising your ability to eliminate marginal. The difference between a marginal shot and a great shot is make or break. Yes, you can bump up your iso to get the speed you want. There is software that can clean up a dirty image, but there is a reason that camera and lens companies build these lenses and people buy and carry them. They are huge, heavy and expensive.

I used to love my Nikkor 180-400 f/4. Paid $13,000 for it. Magnificent lens, until I upgraded my camera
To the Z9. I found that the resolving power of the 180-400 did not match the capabilities of the camera. I noticed the difference and became unsatisfied. Still a great lens and the guy I sold it to got a great deal on a wonderful lens.

One important thing I have noticed, is that each of these lenses comes with a learning curve. Don’t expect that just because you invest tons of money on piece of equipment, it will instantaneously solve the problems and make you a great photographer. While it certainly does greatly enhance the output and ability to capture those great images, knowing how to use them is a critical part of the equation. I have a beautiful set of golf clubs, and I still can’t break 100! (On 18 holes, I’m not that pathetic 😂)

Of course, having said all of this, it ultimately comes down to three things, what you are going to use it for, your commitment to photography and how deep your pockets are.

On another note, I used to shoot JPEG. Captured a bunch of images that were quite good, then I discovered the differences between JPEG and RAW. (Not trying to lead this conversation into that age old debate) Most of the time, if your exposure is ok, JPEGs are fine, but when they are not, that’s when you really wish you had all of the extra information that RAW provides. My point is, why limit your potential when you can arm yourself with everything you can to capture exceptional images?
I have always been of the belief that one should p... (show quote)



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Aug 8, 2023 08:32:59   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
Architect1776 wrote:


When buying glass, you get what you pay for! Best of luck.

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Aug 8, 2023 08:36:21   #
Canisdirus
 
cjc2 wrote:
When buying glass, you get what you pay for! Best of luck.


You get what you pay for...

And yet...many simply do not understand that simple and accurate axiom.

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Aug 8, 2023 08:56:26   #
jcboy3
 
Dragonophile wrote:
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime lenses in the $13,000 range. I can get a Fujifilm or Tamron or Sigma 150-600 mm lens for $2000 or less. I would love to see the same distant object taken at 600mm with one of the primes and one of the lesser telephotos at differing levels of cropping to see the difference in detail/sharpness. Any website show this or does someone here have such photos? I am not expecting a dramatic difference as I understand you pay a high premium for incremental improvements generally. I am not planning on any $13K purchase (unless I win Mega Millions lottery), but just curious.
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime l... (show quote)


You get 4 pounds more weight to carry, a bigger heavier tripod and head if you need one, and a lot of exercise backing up quickly because your subject is too close. For a little over $2000 you can add a 1.4x TC to extend reach even further, but at the cost of two stops less exposure.

Big lens IQ will be better, but if you can't swing that big lens over to acquire focus on your subject it doesn't matter.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:03:51   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Dragonophile wrote:
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime lenses in the $13,000 range. I can get a Fujifilm or Tamron or Sigma 150-600 mm lens for $2000 or less. I would love to see the same distant object taken at 600mm with one of the primes and one of the lesser telephotos at differing levels of cropping to see the difference in detail/sharpness. Any website show this or does someone here have such photos? I am not expecting a dramatic difference as I understand you pay a high premium for incremental improvements generally. I am not planning on any $13K purchase (unless I win Mega Millions lottery), but just curious.
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime l... (show quote)


I go for zoom and a lower price every time.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:06:12   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Fast primes are the standards of comparison !......I CAN tell you that a Canon 300 2.8 and 2X is BETTER than my Tamron 150-600 G2 both lenses wide open @600 !

Starting back in the film days, light intensity at the film was very important because of the relative in-sensitivity of film. Light intensity ( lens aperture speed) and shallow DOF has always been important for focusing. Today as digital sensors and processing become better and AF improves, the advantages/relevance of the fast primes are becoming more diminished. But there will always be a pure native optical IQ advantage of current primes however subtle it may be.

I believe Northrup has some of these comparisons on his youtube - among others.....

FWIW, all the Imatest numbers I have seen for Fuji lenses are below that for the equiv. Canon,Nikon,Sony lenses....
.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:08:22   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Dragonophile wrote:
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime lenses in the $13,000 range. I can get a Fujifilm or Tamron or Sigma 150-600 mm lens for $2000 or less. I would love to see the same distant object taken at 600mm with one of the primes and one of the lesser telephotos at differing levels of cropping to see the difference in detail/sharpness. Any website show this or does someone here have such photos? I am not expecting a dramatic difference as I understand you pay a high premium for incremental improvements generally. I am not planning on any $13K purchase (unless I win Mega Millions lottery), but just curious.
Sony & Nikon & Canon put out 600mm prime l... (show quote)


YOU will not see that much difference. For example, I shoot with both the Sony 200-600 and 600 f4. If I take the same bird with both lenses wide open the back ground on the 600 f4 will be more out of focus than with the 200-600. Now the 600 will focus a nano second faster but in most cases YOU will not notice the difference for the price.
The 600 will acquire focus nano seconds faster than the 200-600, YOU will not notice a difference for the price.
In early morning light the 600 will lock on nano seconds before the 200-600, YOU will not notice the difference for the price.
If both images are put into post processing and enlarged 10 times, the 600 will hold the image better than the 200-600, but with Topaz Denoise and Sharpen YOU may not notice the difference for the price.
If you have the money for the 600, I say go ahead and buy it, as a former professional photographer, I like the results I get with the 600 over the 200-600.
The 600 does not focus as close as the 200-600, if a bird is close I might be out of luck with the 600. So I usually carry the Sony 70-200 for closer birds. My 70-200 is strapped to my waist with a Spider holster.
Now the new Nikon 180-600 will focus very close, I have ordered it through Nikon Professional Services, I have not tested it but I will compare results against my Sony 600.
For the price I like Sony, Nikon, and Canon glass for my tele zooms, I generally stay away from third party glass from Tamron and Sigma, for the price point there is a difference in price that favors the quality and manufacturing process of Sony, Nikon and Canon over third party glass.
So, bottom line, if I were you I would buy the Fuji 100-400, the price point is excellent and it is lighter than most 600 primes. I have seen the results with the Fuji 100-400.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1210897-REG/fujifilm_16501109_xf_100_400mm_f_4_5_5_6_r.html
But I will stick with my full frame camera's sensor over the 4/3 sensor. Personal choice here.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:09:08   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
imagemeister wrote:
Fast primes are the standards of comparison !......I CAN tell you that a Canon 300 2.8 and 2X is BETTER than my Tamron 150-600 G2 both lenses wide open @600 !

Starting back in the film days, light intensity at the film was very important because of the relative in-sensitivity of film. Light intensity ( lens aperture speed) and shallow DOF has always been important for focusing. Today as digital sensors and processing become better and AF improves, the advantages of the fast primes are becoming more diminished. But there will always be a pure native optical IQ advantage of current primes.
Fast primes are the standards of comparison !........ (show quote)



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Aug 8, 2023 09:13:08   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
billnikon wrote:
YOU will not see that much difference. For example, I shoot with both the Sony 200-600 and 600 f4. If I take the same bird with both lenses wide open the back ground on the 600 f4 will be more out of focus than with the 200-600. Now the 600 will focus a nano second faster but in most cases YOU will not notice the difference for the price.
The 600 will acquire focus nano seconds faster than the 200-600, YOU will not notice a difference for the price.
In early morning light the 600 will lock on nano seconds before the 200-600, YOU will not notice the difference for the price.
If both images are put into post processing and enlarged 10 times, the 600 will hold the image better than the 200-600, but with Topaz Denoise and Sharpen YOU may not notice the difference for the price.
If you have the money for the 600, I say go ahead and buy it, as a former professional photographer, I like the results I get with the 600 over the 200-600.
The 600 does not focus as close as the 200-600, if a bird is close I might be out of luck with the 600. So I usually carry the Sony 70-200 for closer birds. My 70-200 is strapped to my waist with a Spider holster.
Now the new Nikon 180-600 will focus very close, I have ordered it through Nikon Professional Services, I have not tested it but I will compare results against my Sony 600.
For the price I like Sony, Nikon, and Canon glass for my tele zooms, I generally stay away from third party glass from Tamron and Sigma, for the price point there is a difference in price that favors the quality and manufacturing process of Sony, Nikon and Canon over third party glass.
So, bottom line, if I were you I would buy the Fuji 100-400, the price point is excellent and it is lighter than most 600 primes. I have seen the results with the Fuji 100-400.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1210897-REG/fujifilm_16501109_xf_100_400mm_f_4_5_5_6_r.html
But I will stick with my full frame camera's sensor over the 4/3 sensor. Personal choice here.
YOU will not see that much difference. For example... (show quote)


Just wondering.
Does not Tamron now make some Nikon glass and rebrand the exact lens as Nikon.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:17:37   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Rent the lens and compare. You will need a wide variety of subjects to make a useful comparison.

Some people will see a difference and some won’t. It will probably depend on your other gear to some extent.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:21:04   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Rent the lens and compare. You will need a wide variety of subjects to make a useful comparison.

Some people will see a difference and some won’t. It will probably depend on your other gear to some extent.


Perhaps depends on the user's skill?

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Aug 8, 2023 09:27:19   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Perhaps depends on the user's skill?



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Aug 8, 2023 09:46:35   #
JBRIII
 
If this is obvious to all, so apologize.
I'm more familiar with astronauts stuff, but here goes.
Lens, mirrors, etc. basically go up by a squared factor, twice the aperture 4x the glass and at least 4x the cost, can be more if getting larger piece of optical quality glass is harder, bubbles, etc. So a $2000 becomes $8000. Second, many of the newer, massive lens I see need special low dispersion glasses which seem to be even more expensive, so $8000 becomes $?????. Refractor telescopes can now be purchased using such glasses with optical properties of F5 or better that even older F12 or F14 scopes couldn't match and they cost plenty, but are practical, 30" tube versus 6 feet or more.
There is a formula relating max resolution to aperture, so bigger should be more detailed even if I'd never notice it.
Add in that few people are going to purchase an expensive lens, cost, weight, and the cost has to go up.

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Aug 8, 2023 09:50:17   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Just wondering.
Does not Tamron now make some Nikon glass and rebrand the exact lens as Nikon.


Wow, you gave me two reasons to laugh this morning, keep it going.

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