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No Trespassing
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Jun 21, 2023 14:52:43   #
M1911 Loc: DFW Metromess
 
jerryc41 wrote:
But does everyone in the USA know?


Heck Jerry most people apparently read speed limit signs and most don't live in the rural areas so have little reason to know.

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Jun 21, 2023 15:03:53   #
GregS Loc: Central Illinois, USA
 
Indiana wrote:
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the state of Indiana. Many bridges in rural areas have property owner fencing adjacent to the roadway with no trespassing signage in clear view. There intent is obvious...stay the hell off my property. But here is the thing; there is a ten foot right of way on both sides of the road, and they are eliminating access with their fencing. The dilemma: obey the signage, or assert your right to public access. To get to the waterway to photograph the bridge, I need access. I assert my rights. Additionally, some prohibit access to the waterway the same way...but here is the thing, they do not own to the shore line, only to the high water mark, which is defined by flooding. Knowing the law, I assess the situation and determine how bad I want that waterway view of the covered bridge, and act accordingly. I know the law, and I know my rights...but, I don't know the hostility that could come down on my head. I take a pocket full of money, and if necessary, I'll buy my way out of hostility, and I walk away with the shot! Got to have guts, determination, and a clear view of what you are doing. Navigable streams are owned by the state. Having fun but being cautious also. Get the shot!
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the ... (show quote)


Those of us that fly drones for photos and videos have a similar problem. MOST do not know the FAA laws that 'some' of us follow. I can fly over a house, people, cars; but I cannot stop. Only pass over; just like an aircraft, which is what the FAA calls drones. I stay around 150' to 200' high, but they think I am trying to spy on them. If I wanted to do that I would pull Google Earth and look at them. I have some great photos and videos that I could never get from the ground.

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Jun 21, 2023 15:46:45   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
Indiana wrote:
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the state of Indiana. Many bridges in rural areas have property owner fencing adjacent to the roadway with no trespassing signage in clear view. There intent is obvious...stay the hell off my property. But here is the thing; there is a ten foot right of way on both sides of the road, and they are eliminating access with their fencing. The dilemma: obey the signage, or assert your right to public access. To get to the waterway to photograph the bridge, I need access. I assert my rights. Additionally, some prohibit access to the waterway the same way...but here is the thing, they do not own to the shore line, only to the high water mark, which is defined by flooding. Knowing the law, I assess the situation and determine how bad I want that waterway view of the covered bridge, and act accordingly. I know the law, and I know my rights...but, I don't know the hostility that could come down on my head. I take a pocket full of money, and if necessary, I'll buy my way out of hostility, and I walk away with the shot! Got to have guts, determination, and a clear view of what you are doing. Navigable streams are owned by the state. Having fun but being cautious also. Get the shot!
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the ... (show quote)


When you speak of the law and your rights are you refereing to state laws that might not pertain to someone here from another state?

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Jun 21, 2023 16:27:10   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
jaymatt wrote:
New Zealand and the USA and its individual states are two completely different animals.

Actually, here in Indiana many properties are owned to the middle of the road. My son and I each own such a property.


So, rather than me explain ownership to you, visit your local county assessor, auditor, or county surveyor, that although your property goes to the middle of the county road and you pay taxes on it, the county has a right-a-way that supersedes your "bundle-of-rights" as a property owner. They are legally responsible for the road and right-a-way, not you, and they maintain the road, pave it, snow removal, mowing the grass in the right-a-way, all of which you are not responsible for because their rights supersede yours. They have complete control, and your only right is to pay taxes on it, and have the same use as every other citizen. If you know the county attorney speak to him/her about this issue. Right-A-ways are public.

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Jun 21, 2023 16:42:46   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
LittleRed wrote:
Just curious. If the fenced strip of land has been done so for more than 10 years can the landowner in Indiana claim adverse possession on that portion of land even if it’s a public road? If so would he not be able to post the signage you describe? Also how do you determine whether the waterway under the bridge is navigable. From where I come from there are different rules/regulations on whether a waterway is navigable or non-navigable. The location Property limits on either of these waterways are usually quite different. As to the location of the high water mark of a stream it is in most times questionable with a whole slew of requirements. There is no simple answer and In a lot of cases the true determination is left up to the courts to decide. In fact a lot of the times this location can be clarified to some extent by speaking to the adjacent land owner especially if they have been in the area for a extended period of time.
Like I said, am just curious as to what is what in your neck of the woods. I know what is what where I live.

LittleRed (Ron)
Just curious. If the fenced strip of land has been... (show quote)

Navigable waterways are ones that you can navigate with a boat (deep enough year around water depth). Property ownership for navigable streams is the high-water mark on the shoreline. Non-navigable streams have property ownership into the middle of the stream (private ownership of creeks, streams, and drainage ditches). Rivers are generally navigable. Creeks are not. If a covered bridge is over a "river by name" or a "creek by name" you know what ownership and property rights folks have, or think they have. Adverse possession of land (fencing) is never applicable to publicly owned property (right-a-ways).

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Jun 21, 2023 16:46:17   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
BurghByrd wrote:
When you speak of the law and your rights are you refereing to state laws that might not pertain to someone here from another state?


Laws pertain to everyone, regardless of where you are from. Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense. Thanks for reading my post. John

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Jun 21, 2023 16:47:44   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
jerryc41 wrote:
But does everyone in the USA know?


Ignorance of the law is no excuse!!

Reply
 
 
Jun 21, 2023 16:51:36   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
GregS wrote:
Those of us that fly drones for photos and videos have a similar problem. MOST do not know the FAA laws that 'some' of us follow. I can fly over a house, people, cars; but I cannot stop. Only pass over; just like an aircraft, which is what the FAA calls drones. I stay around 150' to 200' high, but they think I am trying to spy on them. If I wanted to do that I would pull Google Earth and look at them. I have some great photos and videos that I could never get from the ground.


What are the "privacy" issues with drone photography. There is an expectation of privacy on your own property unless visible from a public place. Is the movement of the drone the perceived resolution to the privacy issue of a homeowner who feels invaded?

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Jun 21, 2023 17:28:08   #
clickety
 
Indiana wrote:
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the state of Indiana. Many bridges in rural areas have property owner fencing adjacent to the roadway with no trespassing signage in clear view. There intent is obvious...stay the hell off my property. But here is the thing; there is a ten foot right of way on both sides of the road, and they are eliminating access with their fencing. The dilemma: obey the signage, or assert your right to public access. To get to the waterway to photograph the bridge, I need access. I assert my rights. Additionally, some prohibit access to the waterway the same way...but here is the thing, they do not own to the shore line, only to the high water mark, which is defined by flooding. Knowing the law, I assess the situation and determine how bad I want that waterway view of the covered bridge, and act accordingly. I know the law, and I know my rights...but, I don't know the hostility that could come down on my head. I take a pocket full of money, and if necessary, I'll buy my way out of hostility, and I walk away with the shot! Got to have guts, determination, and a clear view of what you are doing. Navigable streams are owned by the state. Having fun but being cautious also. Get the shot!
So, I'm photographing covered bridges (91) in the ... (show quote)


This post reeks of your narcissism. I suggest you ditch the haughty, arrogant condescending attitude and ask yourself, are your photos even important to anyone beside yourself? If there is a compelling reason beside ‘because I just want to’ then I suggest you humbly and respectfully explain this to the landowner and politely ask for access. You may be surprised how positively a ‘farmer’ will respond to common decency.
This advice may also help you conserve that “pocketful of cash” you’re so proud of.

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Jun 21, 2023 17:36:00   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
Horseart wrote:
It's obvious you don't really know Linda. She was just pickin' atcha jokingly. We have a few who are a little snarky but she's not one of those.
Most of us would say just do what you know is right or what you really want to do and take a chance on the consequences. I'd say ask permission first. If granted, grab your camera and shoot!

Edit: You might even offer them a print of the photo.


First of all...I know Linda. I have private messaged her in the past and she has commented on my post at various times. When writing, always place yourself in the position of the reader, and how the reader will respond to your words, favorably or unfavorably. Linda doesn't need you to defend her...she is capable of doing that herself. By the way, when you drive up to a covered bridge in the middle of nowhere, there are no houses within miles, everything is agricultural, who's door do you knock on for permission to disregard their illegal fence????

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Jun 21, 2023 17:42:27   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Indiana wrote:
...
... By the way, when you drive up to a covered bridge in the middle of nowhere, there are no houses within miles, everything is agricultural, who's door do you knock on for permission to disregard their illegal fence????

Under those conditions, I MAY consider going past the fence, but not if it is posted.
But I would shoot and move on,
not make a big stink about it.

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Jun 21, 2023 17:52:58   #
Doc Mck Loc: Terrell,Texas
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Wow! That's scary.


There is not much public land in Texas. If you are anywhere off a public road and not in an identified public area you are trespassing on someone’s property. We are plagued ( along our border counties ) with illegal immigrants crossing our ranches. I just sold some cattle to a couple of ranchers from south of San Antonio. They informed me that all the immigrant bands are now armed and the Cartels control that part of our state. In Texas, hunting rights are a valuable commodity and are leased. No one has ever asked to photograph my property. However, we allow family members to hunt and recreate on the ranch. They and their friends commonly cause problems by leaving trash, not picking up empty shot shell cartridges. Last summer while hunting hogs, my 22 year old grandson shot and killed a $3500 cow. Cows will ingest empty shot shells and develop bowel obstructions. When a gate is left open, cows intermingle and create a lot of extra work for the rancher. Not much good comes from a trespasser and lots of bad things. We don’t shoot them, we ask them to leave. If I can find a game warden, we call him for assistance. We do press charges if the Law gets involved.

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Jun 21, 2023 17:55:34   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I saw that purple post thing in a Family Handyman email. I can't imagine that holding up in court.


The purple post thing is a law in many states, and, yes, it does hold up in court.

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Jun 21, 2023 17:59:13   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Wow! That's scary.


Why? It's a legislated law and has been well publicised.

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Jun 21, 2023 18:03:55   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
Indiana wrote:
So, rather than me explain ownership to you, visit your local county assessor, auditor, or county surveyor, that although your property goes to the middle of the county road and you pay taxes on it, the county has a right-a-way that supersedes your "bundle-of-rights" as a property owner. They are legally responsible for the road and right-a-way, not you, and they maintain the road, pave it, snow removal, mowing the grass in the right-a-way, all of which you are not responsible for because their rights supersede yours. They have complete control, and your only right is to pay taxes on it, and have the same use as every other citizen. If you know the county attorney speak to him/her about this issue. Right-A-ways are public.
So, rather than me explain ownership to you, visit... (show quote)


So the answer to your dilemma is simple! Stay on the roadway and there will be no problems. Step over that right-of-way and the problems begin.

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