E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

At Last- common sense and consideration rather than entitlement and "amateur lawyers" talking about "expectation of privacy" etc.

I do not do "street photography" as a hobby, however, I have had many occasions where I had to do that on an assignment. There was a time when I worked as a "stringer" for several New York newspapers and later as a full-time staffer for a Montreal Daily Newspaper. I was sent to cover "events" such as ethnic street celebrations, festivities, protests, political upheaval, riots, fires, disasters, and VIP motorcades- situations where there were crowds of folks participating, rubbernecking, celebrating, and sometimes breaking the law.
On slow news days, the boss would send us to the streets and parkss to shoot "human interest" folks shopping, kids on the playground, sunning on the beach on a hot day, whatever!

In doing this work one learns to "read people" and get a sense of their attitudes and how they might react to being photographed. In certain festive situations and environments, many folks will have the "expectation" that photographers will be present and doing their thing. On other situations, photographers are seriously unwelcome. Even in "tough" New York City, I remember shooting in Greenwich Village. There were artists, with easels set up on the street, and photograhers shooing, they all blended into the scene- the environment, nobody paid them much mind. That summer, I covered the riots in Bedford-Stuyvesant that occurred after the Watts County and Detroit racial unrest- definitely NOT a festivity or a tourist attraction! Unlike the folks enjoying the Summer on the beach in Cony Island, their fokls looting and burning down buildings did not "ham it up" for the cameras. My advantage was that Bet-Sty was my neighborhood and I knew folks were protesting for good reason and I wanted to show their side of the story. By "reading" the crowds, I know who was protesting and the others who just came in to loot and destroy things. I had to communicate that I was not there to expose criminals or exploit the situation. I had to network! Of course, this is an extreme situation but if you take it down a few notches, it provided me with perspective.

So, if I am shooting in a crowd or working at an event, I call on my intuition to read the mood. Sometimes I will ask permission- somets just a friendly smile will do the trick, and sometimes things just go smoothly but there is no rule that applies to every situation.

As for the "no expectation of privacy in public places" thing, that may apply to the laws in The United States and Canada and possibly other countries but not necessarily in othere places and jurisdictions. In certain religious and ethnic groups, there are laws and superstitions that prohibit photography of people, graven images, etc. There are places in the world where "not havg a model release" or a lawsuit will be the least of your problems. You can be set upon by an angry crowd, beaten senseless, and murdered! Its happened! Also remember, on private property, certain government buildings and installations, hospitals, etc, all bets are off- you must secure permission, and obey posted rules and instructions from security personnel.

It's the year 2023- Times have changed. As I mentioned, in the early 1970s my editor sent me to the schoolyards and playgroups to photograph the kids playing and enjoying the water spray on hot-weather days. Nowadays, I would not be caught dead, with a camera, anywhere near a schoolyard unless I was accompanied by the Mayor, The Chief of Police, the School principal, and enough paperwork from the Board Of Education that would not fit in my camer bag! It's unfortunate but true!

If there are any rules of thumb- Be respectful- in most cases respect will be returned. Network and communicate with people, ask permission when you FEEL it is necessary or appropriate, and don't be a amateur lawyer. If you are doing work commercially, publishing, images, or profiting from your images of people, do consult with a real lawyer and determine exactly when releases are required and not required. And... please refer to the philosophy of Mr. Page's lawyer friend- jot it down on a piece of paper and pack it in your camera bag and your mindset!

Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx

But most people don’t even give a 2nd thought to someone holding up and shooting or filming with a smartphone. I’m starting to use my smartphone more and more for street photography. My daughter is a lawyer. She and I agree it’s much more a morals and ethics question than a legal one, for Supreme Court has ruled on different occasions that there can be no expectation of privacy in a public place. It actually needs to be that way for law enforcement to use cameras as much as they do.

OldCADuser Loc: Irvine, CA

When I was working for McDonnell Douglas (the computer automation division) back in the 80's, during one of our national sales conferences (I was part of the team of engineers and subject-matter experts who supported the salespeople) our VP of Sales invited one of the corporate lawyers in to hold a session about ethical behavior, and that's exactly what he told us; his job wasn't to comment on what was 'right' or 'wrong' or even 'fair' and 'unfair', but strictly what was 'lawful' and 'unlawful'. Now he did admit that when dealing with customers, it was critical that we understood what it was that we could legally say or promise, because that would go a long way in helping us to be seen as doing what was right or treating customers in a fair and equitable manner.

kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA

True.

kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA

Not "can be" no expectation of privacy, there IS NO expectation of privacy when out in public.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

The rules may or may not be different - but my post was ASKING for Hog opinions and I put my opinion forward accordingly.
Look before you leap?

riderxlx Loc: DFW area Texas

He was not. It is the men who do the cackling and Clucking he mentioned.
Bruce.

ELNikkor

Grab shots when they are oblivious to me, ok, often shooting from the hip. Other times, have a conversation and ask first. Never sold one, but did use several for "52 Frames" challenge "Photo of a Stranger".

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Marilyng wrote:
Excuse me,are you making reference to we women in this group?

I don't think so - don't women usually engage in rabbiting?

canonuser25 Loc: Cardiff (Wales NOT England)

In many countries e.g. Ethiopia it is belief that you are capturing the subjects soul. It is only common courtesy to ask. If they say no,walk away. You may not have the photo but you will have the memory

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

leftj Loc: Texas

Not exactly true. Almost 6,000 crimes using firearms in the UK in 2022.

mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA

I'm betting the over/under is 12 pages!

Nikon1201

I have a large collection of street art. I usually never have a problem. For the most part people do not object. I use a 18-200 lens to be more discreet. I never intentionally photo children but if there are kids in the background there is nothing you can do. No one takes a photo without a 100 kids in the background.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

To answer the question posed in the title, 'tis easier to ask forgiveness than get permission.
--Bob