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Colored Filters on Digital Cameras
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Mar 21, 2023 12:17:12   #
DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
You'd be wasting your money. The camera captures in color at the sensor. You cannot "shoot in B&W" with a full-color sensor. Setting the camera to B&W doesn't nothing except causing the camera to convert the color data to B&W in a JPEG output format.

You'd be better served shooting in full-color RAW and converting to B&W on your computer. You can apply color filters during that computer-based conversion, just as the 'filter' effect can be applied to the B&W JPEG conversion by the camera.

You can find free and for-purchase B&W software, maybe to automate the conversion or to give a larger selection of conversion options. Adobe Lightroom has a large selection of B&W effects and color filters, should you already subscribe to this software.

If you want more contrast in your B&W images, 1, edit the color data to completion of a color version of the image, then 2, convert that edit to B&W and adjust first the blacks, whites highlights, and shadow sliders, then the contrast, if needed. Apply too a color filter during the B&W conversion, if desired.
You'd be wasting your money. The camera captures i... (show quote)


I agree with CHG_CANON. Shoot in raw, then convert to B&W in post. I suggest you look at the NIK Suite. There are 8 different software products in the suite, all of them good, but the star is Silver Efex. With that, you can take B&W photography to a new level. Cost is $149, which is roughly what you might spend on a set of filters. There's a free trial.

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Mar 21, 2023 12:35:26   #
JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA
 
Here is a comparison done two different ways. The first image was done in color and converted to B&W in Lightroom and used a simulated red filter on a red rose. The second image is also a red rose, but was taken with my camera which has been modified to be a mono sensor by the removal of the CFA. An actual red filter was used. One detail needs to be added is that this camera also is full spectrum IR since the UV-IR cut filter was also removed. But this represents the quality of B&W image that comes from using a mono sensor.

Now I admit that the two images were taken on different days and different times.

But I always get superior B&W results with the mono sensor. The tonality is better and the images are not as harsh.

***********************************************************

Adding a third image taken using an Olympus EM5ii that has been modified to be full spectrum IR. Taken with a red filter. Converted to B&W in Lightroom using the B&W11 filter. Note: A red filter passes red plus all longer wavelengths. And with a full spectrum camera, it sees those longer wavelengths resulting in what we see here.

My conclusion here is that having IR light in the image has a big effect on the resulting B&W image with it approaching what I got with the mono sensor camera. In fact I have noticed that I get much better B&W images consistantly with my full spectrum camera than I do from my visible light only cameras.

Image shot in RAW of red rose, converted to B&W in Lightroom with simulated red filter
Image shot in RAW of red rose, converted to B&W in...
(Download)

Image shot with mono sensor. Lens had red filter
Image shot with mono sensor.  Lens had red filter...
(Download)

Full Spectrum IR with red filter. Camera has CFA.
Full Spectrum IR with red filter.  Camera has CFA....
(Download)

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Mar 21, 2023 14:22:26   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
JimH123 wrote:
Here is a comparison done two different ways. The first image was done in color and converted to B&W in Lightroom and used a simulated red filter on a red rose. The second image is also a red rose, but was taken with my camera which has been modified to be a mono sensor by the removal of the CFA. An actual red filter was used. One detail needs to be added is that this camera also is full spectrum IR since the UV-IR cut filter was also removed. But this represents the quality of B&W image that comes from using a mono sensor.

Now I admit that the two images were taken on different days and different times.

But I always get superior B&W results with the mono sensor. The tonality is better and the images are not as harsh.

***********************************************************

Adding a third image taken using an Olympus EM5ii that has been modified to be full spectrum IR. Taken with a red filter. Converted to B&W in Lightroom using the B&W11 filter. Note: A red filter passes red plus all longer wavelengths. And with a full spectrum camera, it sees those longer wavelengths resulting in what we see here.

My conclusion here is that having IR light in the image has a big effect on the resulting B&W image with it approaching what I got with the mono sensor camera. In fact I have noticed that I get much better B&W images consistantly with my full spectrum camera than I do from my visible light only cameras.
Here is a comparison done two different ways. The... (show quote)


“full spectrum IR” is an oxymoron. Full spectrum is full spectrum. You can use full spectrum camera with an IR filter to get IR results, or with a colored filter to get a combination of higher frequency visible wavelengths with IR.

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Mar 21, 2023 14:32:00   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
larryepage wrote:
So let's get down to the brass tacks of reality here. Black & white is a very difficult medium. As our eyes age and it becomes difficult for us to even distinguish subtle variations in tonality, it becomes more difficult for a photographer to even create an image worthy of display, and it becomes more and more difficult for an audience to discern why he even went to the trouble. The result is that probably 98 or 99% of those b&w images would much better have been left in color or just left. A few of them make pretty nice nostalgic snapshots, but some of those look nice framed up in the bathroom, but I don't even remember when I last saw a recent b&w image that rose to the level of fine art.

There's really absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it does beg the question of why there is so much needless salivating over how it got there or how much control is retained or required. It certainly has no bearing on the OP's original question of whether it would work to use the traditional filters used with monochrome film. Because it will. All the photographer has to do is to make sure Auto White Balance is turned off.

Are there other ways to accomplish monochrome images? Yes. At lease three other ways, as I outlined far above. Including the way you suggest. But they will all work. I've tried them all. I am weary to the bone of folks here claiming and promoting a method for accomplishing a process, then claiming that it is "the only way to do it." Or that it is the only way that a decent person would do it.

Listen...I've been to two night sky workshops, taught by two different individuals. Their methods (but more importantly, their underlying thinking) are completely different I also have seen a presentation at a club meeting by a third person who uses completely different equipment to accomplish the same or similar result in a radically different manner. I have learned all three approaches and methods. I can make each one work. I prefer one of the methods and choose to use it to the exclusion of the others. But I have friends who use both of those other methods and get quite good results. And if I am shooting with them, I can skillfully assist them, because I know and understand what they are doing. I can even do that while shooting my own preferred way at the same time.

Flexibility is an asset. So is understanding others.
So let's get down to the brass tacks of reality he... (show quote)


That’s some serious spin. You said it’s better to shoot in B&W. I suggested the more flexible option to set the camera to B&W but shoot raw. You responded with nonsense about trying to get B&W prints from color negatives. I pointed out that shooting digital is completely different and that sensor data is the same whether you shoot B&W jpeg or raw, but that raw offers much more flexibility. Now you come back with this nonsense about flexibility. As for people shooting B&W today, I know several that do excellent B&aw work.

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Mar 21, 2023 15:03:19   #
JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
“full spectrum IR” is an oxymoron. Full spectrum is full spectrum. You can use full spectrum camera with an IR filter to get IR results, or with a colored filter to get a combination of higher frequency visible wavelengths with IR.


Of course it is an oxymoron. But if I don't say it that way, there are some who don't know what I'm saying. And I do have UV-IR cut filters in various sizes so I can make it operate as a visible spectrum camera. But I rarely do this.

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Mar 21, 2023 17:25:54   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
That’s some serious spin. You said it’s better to shoot in B&W. I suggested the more flexible option to set the camera to B&W but shoot raw. You responded with nonsense about trying to get B&W prints from color negatives. I pointed out that shooting digital is completely different and that sensor data is the same whether you shoot B&W jpeg or raw, but that raw offers much more flexibility. Now you come back with this nonsense about flexibility. As for people shooting B&W today, I know several that do excellent B&aw work.
That’s some serious spin. You said it’s better to ... (show quote)


None of that is pertinent against the OP's question of whether a red filter can be used to enhance images when shooting in b&w. Nor are most of the other responses in this discussion.
Nor is the convoluted logic that seeks to convince the OP of the imagined necessity of capturing raw and desaturating later when all he wants to do is experiment with that red filter.

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Mar 21, 2023 18:39:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
larryepage wrote:
None of that is pertinent against the OP's question of whether a red filter can be used to enhance images when shooting in b&w. Nor are most of the other responses in this discussion.
Nor is the convoluted logic that seeks to convince the OP of the imagined necessity of capturing raw and desaturating later when all he wants to do is experiment with that red filter.


And everyone responding back with ideas for using the camera and / or software are responding with free ideas. And with experience. All seeking to drive the OP away from wasting money on an experiment to prove our collective experience on digital photography and B&W results.

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Mar 21, 2023 19:36:52   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Urnst wrote:
I am thinking of buying orange and red filters for use on a digital camera to increase contrast with B&W images. Will this work?


Save raw files. Edit to black-and-white in post. You have infinite possibilities for mixing different colors to form gray. Green? Yellow? Orange? Red? Blue? Violet? Check… plus anything else you can dial up.

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Mar 21, 2023 21:30:47   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
larryepage wrote:
None of that is pertinent against the OP's question of whether a red filter can be used to enhance images when shooting in b&w. Nor are most of the other responses in this discussion.
Nor is the convoluted logic that seeks to convince the OP of the imagined necessity of capturing raw and desaturating later when all he wants to do is experiment with that red filter.


Wow, talk about a lack of imagination, (except for your spin. That does show some imagination). The OP asked a question. It doesn’t seem very helpful to limit the responses when there are options he had no knowledge of or never considered. Any response that increases his knowledge of the subject is pertinent.

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Mar 22, 2023 05:51:22   #
puku8849
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Wow, talk about a lack of imagination, (except for your spin. That does show some imagination). The OP asked a question. It doesn’t seem very helpful to limit the responses when there are options he had no knowledge of or never considered. Any response that increases his knowledge of the subject is pertinent.


For purist, Leica has this :Leica Q2 Monochrom Digital Camera
Merging two of their most unique series, the Leica Q2 Monochrom is a full-frame compact camera fitted with a 47.3MP monochrome sensor, which is used for the sole purpose of recording vivid and rich black-and-white imagery.

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Mar 22, 2023 08:19:29   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
Urnst wrote:
I am thinking of buying orange and red filters for use on a digital camera to increase contrast with B&W images. Will this work?

My immediate thinking was that this would be like buying a buggy whip for your Tesla.

If you don't have good photo editing software that would be a better choice. Shoot RAW and process it with a capable editor. A good editor will have a B&W filter that allows you to adjust the contribution of individual colors. That way you can get much more detailed control over the conversion and a much wider range of options than actual filters ever could.

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Mar 22, 2023 09:36:58   #
photon-collector Loc: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
 
I don't have an answer, but I do have a minority opinion. Panchromatic film is more sensitive to blue light, than the other colors. This causes the sky (or other blue object) to be overexposed, relative to the rest of the scene. Using a yellow, orange or red filter will filter out (cut back) the blue intensity....thus making the sky look darker/more dramatic.

I don't believe that a digital sensor has this same sensitivity issue.....so I'm not sure that a colored filter will produce the same effect as it did on film. Just my WAG.

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Mar 22, 2023 11:28:09   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Wow! With apologies to Urnst, this has become a very comical discussion. Many theories voiced, some pretty loudly and energetically, but too much fear prevailing to actually pull out a red filter and try to see what happens. It doesn't even have to be exactly the right size for the experiment. Just hold it in front of the lens and shoot through it to see what you get. If you are really too afraid to try it yourself, borrow your grandson or granddaughter and get them to help you figure it out.

The lack of curiosity, willingness to investigate, and adventure here are real downers. Worse is the mass jump to discourage those who might have an original idea and the impulse to get their train back on the "proper" track. I'm out of this discussion. You folks do whatever suits you. I'm going to go see if I can learn something new. Probably won't share it here, though.

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Mar 22, 2023 11:36:24   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
larryepage wrote:
Wow! With apologies to Urnst, this has become a very comical discussion. Many theories voiced, some pretty loudly and energetically, but too much fear prevailing to actually pull out a red filter and try to see what happens. It doesn't even have to be exactly the right size for the experiment. Just hold it in front of the lens and shoot through it to see what you get. If you are really too afraid to try it yourself, borrow your grandson or granddaughter and get them to help you figure it out.

The lack of curiosity, willingness to investigate, and adventure here are real downers. Worse is the mass jump to discourage those who might have an original idea and the impulse to get their train back on the "proper" track. I'm out of this discussion. You folks do whatever suits you. I'm going to go see if I can learn something new. Probably won't share it here, though.
Wow! With apologies to Urnst, this has become a ve... (show quote)


What an odd response, given your earlier comments to the OP to save their money and use their camera settings....

larryepage wrote:
Yes, it will work. But you may want to look at your Picture Control menu and see if the are options under the Monochrome option to apply these filters electronically. The advantage is that you can use the filter function with any lens...you don't have to provide for multiple filter ring sizes .

larryepage wrote:
I'm not sure what options your camera allows. Mine allows choosing yellow, orange, red, or green filters. This allows for a range of darkening the sky. As you may be aware, you can also minimize complexion flaws (yellow, orange, or red), strengthen facial features (green), lighten foliage (green), or achieve any number of other effects.

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Mar 22, 2023 11:46:55   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
larryepage wrote:
Wow! With apologies to Urnst, this has become a very comical discussion. Many theories voiced, some pretty loudly and energetically, but too much fear prevailing to actually pull out a red filter and try to see what happens. It doesn't even have to be exactly the right size for the experiment. Just hold it in front of the lens and shoot through it to see what you get. If you are really too afraid to try it yourself, borrow your grandson or granddaughter and get them to help you figure it out.

The lack of curiosity, willingness to investigate, and adventure here are real downers. Worse is the mass jump to discourage those who might have an original idea and the impulse to get their train back on the "proper" track. I'm out of this discussion. You folks do whatever suits you. I'm going to go see if I can learn something new. Probably won't share it here, though.
Wow! With apologies to Urnst, this has become a ve... (show quote)


I HAVE kept all my filters from my film camera days. I have tried all of them with the camera in JPEG Monochrome modes, set to a custom (manual, preset) white balance first, without the filter. I got somewhat similar results to B&W film, but found far more control and subtlety is possible by simply editing a raw file in post production to mix various levels of various colors. I saw no particular advantage to using the filters over the lens, and in fact, a HUGE disadvantage (reduced exposure).

Your experience may vary, and you may well find a use case for filters over the lens, but I didn't see one.

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