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Why I shoot RAW
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Jan 31, 2023 10:16:21   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
One fact is indisputable, you will NEVER know the full image quality that your camera and lens can capture if you never shoot a raw file.

All jpegs are compressed and processed by the algorithms of the camera's image processor. When your camera compresses a RAW file into a JPEG image, it undergoes a lossy compression process. While the compression makes the file smaller, you will lose some of the data and detail from the photograph, including lots of your tonal range, some of your color pallet, some of the pixels and some of your image quality, all to compress that image down to a smaller size file.

Sure Jpegs coming out of current cameras have better image quality than they used to have, as camera processors and their algorithms have advanced, but you are still losing data and image quality, FOREVER. Uncompressed raw files keep all the data captured without any of that data being compressed and discarded by the camera's processor.

Why spend for a good camera and good glass and never really know the full image quality that they can capture?

Those who say it doesn't make any difference are just like countless folks who have gotten used to the image quality of jpegs SOOC, and the ease of working with jpegs in most photo software, and the ease of sharing them across all platforms. It has become the industry standard image format for better or worse.

Another lossy compression image format is HEIF, first in Apple smartphones and now also in some larger cameras, but it has yet to be fully embraced by all editing software and all platforms. HEIF is the name for the standard — High Efficiency Image Format — while HEIC is Apple's chosen file name extension. The terms are basically interchangeable because the High Efficiency Video Compression (HEVC) standard, also known as H. 265, is the base for both.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format
https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/file-types/image/comparison/heic-vs-jpeg.html#diff_heic_jpeg

If you are totally satisfied with losing that data and image quality forever, then just shoot jpegs and be happy letting your camera processor's algorithms make the processing decisions for you, like noise reduction, image sharpness, shadow and highlight retention, color space, etc.

For my professional work I shoot raw+jpeg to the two cards in my camera. Jpegs for quick sharing and/or transmitting to media from the field on the job location ; and/or for clients for their quick selection of images chosen for their use. Then I process the raw files for my best final output.

Also my jpegs do give me some redundancy for all paid shoots. If a card fails or gets corrupted ,I am not at risk to lose all my useable images. It is a very rare event, but it has happened in my long career, and better to be safe than sorry and not take a hit to my reputation, or fail and possibly lose a client.

Raw file culling takes no more time than culling jpegs with the right editing software. Processing of the raw files takes a bit longer, but you have much more image data to work with, more latitude in processing, the entire color space without prior need to set a white balance or color temp in your camera (though I do by habit for the jpegs I also capture) , and you never destroy or discard any of your original raw data when you output your finished work.

Yes I do save both my raw and jpeg files. For me they are my assets, my source of revenue now and for possible future sales, and my legacy. Not everyone needs to do that if you aren't making a living with your work.

Cheers and best to you all.
One fact is indisputable, you will NEVER know the ... (show quote)


Like I said before, NO REASON NOT to shoot both. The JPEG part adds very little to total file size.
I don't have the time to post every photo and the jpeg gives me a good snap shot of the image for "general purpose" when I get around to it I can use the raw

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Jan 31, 2023 10:29:17   #
Robertl594 Loc: Bloomfield Hills, Michigan and Nantucket
 
I repeat, why would anyone want to throw away that much data, proper exposure or not? Before I began shooting RAW, JPEG was the only thing I knew. I took a series of photos that to this day are some of my most liked and used photos. They were from 0 to 255 and beyond. I WISH I knew about RAW then as the software and in camera processing today is so much better than it was back in 1999. If I had shot RAW, back then, I believe that I could better PP those images now, and then again in years to come when software improves again.

This is the age old discussion of RAW vs JPEG. Shoot as you wish but we are actually debating scientific facts, not opinions.

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Jan 31, 2023 10:53:04   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Sidwalkastronomy wrote:
Like I said before, NO REASON NOT to shoot both. The JPEG part adds very little to total file size.
I don't have the time to post every photo and the jpeg gives me a good snap shot of the image for "general purpose" when I get around to it I can use the raw


Memory is cheap so there's not much impact to shooting both.

However, there is a confusion factor. If you edit the raw and save it as a jpg, what name does it have? If you give it a new name, no problem. If not, you already have a jpg (from the camera) on your disk somewhere and if they're not in the same folder they could have the same name.

When I finish a shoot, I download the raw files and import them to Lightroom. I do the same with the jpg if I don't have raw files. It is absolutely necessary for me to have the image in the Lightroom catalog because that is my memory. At my age my memory is all externally digital. If it isn't in Lightroom there's less than a 50% chance that I will ever find the image again, and even if I can find it, the process will take me hours.

Since there is no difference exporting an image from Lightroom starting with a raw file or a jpg file, I don't bother with the jpg unless the camera I'm using will not produce a raw file. So for me, there's NO reason to shoot raw+jpg.

IMHO, the ONLY time I need a jpg is when I need to share it in real time. In that case I use my iPhone. Sure, I could produce a jpg with my camera, but my camera doesn't share photos online.

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Jan 31, 2023 11:04:50   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Sidwalkastronomy wrote:
I have Jarid polen T shirt that says "I shoot raw"


I have a Will Crockett T-Shirt that says, "Raw is for Rookies." He had those printed after a dozen of us "Hybrid Heros" (a LinkedIn group at the time) had a Google Hangout with Jared back in 2012 or '13.

Will's point was that raw is forgiving, but it takes a professional's knowledge and experience to light a scene and configure a camera well enough to get professional results from JPEGs. A professional also knows to graciously give up on JPEGs in situations where raw capture is a better solution.

There is NOTHING wrong with adopting either a raw workflow or a JPEG workflow, although each tends to be most appropriate under entirely different circumstances.

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Jan 31, 2023 11:07:31   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
sgomboz wrote:
I could d have said that better BohoH. I have been a professional photographer for years… guess what??? I shoot JPEG. If you expose your pictures properly when shooting, you should have no problem fixing them up if needed… 99% of mine do not need altering because I take my time, look at my settings and get them right. When I see some of these pictures posted you can tell the RAW file has been edited and now looks like a painting. Not what the actual scene looked like when the photo was taken. If that’s a persons thing.. so be it.. but I laugh when I hear a person say you’re not a professional if you don’t shoot RAW. Instead of learning how to edit… learn how to take a
Properly exposed photo….. just saying
I could d have said that better BohoH. I have been... (show quote)


sgomboz - you said "I could d have..." Did you mean to say "I couldn't have...", that's what I choose to believe and thus I'll say "Thanks" a dozen times.
And, between your comment and mine I think we made a good statement regarding JPEGs.
Bob

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Jan 31, 2023 11:15:56   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
Sidwalkastronomy wrote:
Like I said before, NO REASON NOT to shoot both. The JPEG part adds very little to total file size.
I don't have the time to post every photo and the jpeg gives me a good snap shot of the image for "general purpose" when I get around to it I can use the raw


I only shoot raw+ if i need or want to share a photo immediately or very quickly, then delete it. Is there a viewer that does not show the built in jpeg for viewing?

If i shoot raw+, when culling, I then have two to discard. I edit the raw, export and print out share, then delete. If I need it again, I'll export again.

To each his own, but this is what works best for me.

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Jan 31, 2023 11:24:47   #
sgomboz Loc: Chicago
 
Yea Bob, I couldn’t have….. and yes we made a point. Don’t get me wrong I have and do occasionally shoot RAW, it has it purposes. But I mainly shoot JPEG without any issues. It just get ls me going when someone says you not a professional if you don’t shoot RAW.

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Jan 31, 2023 11:28:51   #
slcarn Loc: Draper, Utah USA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Raw isn't just a file format, it's a way of life. RAW is a constant journey that has a finite start with the shutter release, but has no final ending as the file travels the incomprehensible chain of existence within the world of software.


Can we get all of that printed on a T-shirt?

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Jan 31, 2023 11:45:27   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
Even with perfect exposure…which is seldom the case no matter how good you or any other pro thinks you are…there will almost always be areas that are too dark or light and need exposure or contrast or whatever adjusted. While there’s nothing wrong with jpg for some purposes…any pro worth the name…and I in no way consider myself a pro…would want to get the best possible output as well as express his/her vision…and the simple truth is that if you let the camera maker determine what PP the photo gets and shoot in jpg you’re simply and stupidly throwing away a great deal of the recorded light and color you paid so much for the equipment to get. While you can PP a jpg…it isn’t nearly as much as you can do with a RAW file. So…I would agree that a PRO would likely want to shoot RAW almost always in order to produce the best results for the client.

File format…much like brand fanboys…much like the FF/DX arguments and the MILC/DSLR ones…and much like the fast prime/flexible and affordable zoom ones…simply depends. The correct answer to *any* of those is…it depends on a whole raft of factors and even narrowing it down to a single user that doesn’t reduce the field of decision much because it is all situational.
Even with perfect exposure…which is seldom the cas... (show quote)

What if the Jpeg with a light editing turns out just beautiful

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Jan 31, 2023 11:47:56   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Sidwalkastronomy wrote:
Like I said before, NO REASON NOT to shoot both. The JPEG part adds very little to total file size.
I don't have the time to post every photo and the jpeg gives me a good snap shot of the image for "general purpose" when I get around to it I can use the raw


Finally found out what jpeg is after years of asking it’s a snapshot

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Jan 31, 2023 11:48:43   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
davyboy wrote:
Finally found out what jpeg is after years of asking it’s a snapshot



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Jan 31, 2023 12:14:54   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
frankraney wrote:
Is there a viewer that does not show the built in jpeg for viewing?


I don’t think it is possible to have such a viewer. There is nothing in a raw file other than the included preview jpeg that is viewable without “development”. And there is no quick development. It must be that a so called CODEC (Which neither enCOdes or DECodes anything.) for Finder/Explorer just knows where to grab the thumbnail that is embedded by the camera in the raw file.

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Jan 31, 2023 12:25:26   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
Jack 13088 wrote:
I don’t think it is possible to have such a viewer. There is nothing in a raw file other than the included preview jpeg that is viewable without “development”. And there is no quick development. It must be that a so called CODEC (Which neither enCOdes or DECodes anything.) for Finder/Explorer just knows where to grab the thumbnail that is embedded by the camera in the raw file.


Jack, reread my post. See the sarcasm? He said he saves the jpeg for a quick view. If that's all the reason, then why.

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Jan 31, 2023 12:35:00   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Robertl594 wrote:
Beluga is very good vodka. Try Reyka! Exceptionally fine Icelandic vodka at a fraction of the price, I prefer it. Iceland is less controversial at the moment. I choose to support our Ukrainian brothers and sisters.


Might try a Reyka if I find one
I'm not really into spirits but I recently bought this bottle just for the bottle itself
Crystal Head Vodka!

The Beluga was actually an old advert, posted to show the absurdity of RAW vs JPEG and the polarity it brings to the table. On the otherhand, it seems that at the moment, any winner going to Moscow will also have a chance to win a trip to Ukraine and with that an even bigger prize. A big chance to win a trip to the afterlife.



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Jan 31, 2023 12:56:35   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Jack 13088 wrote:
I shot the raw and the raw won.


It was it high noon was it? Raw with fancy hip shooting can empty the barrel real quick when its on the roll, and he'll get you whether your black or white. If you want to beat Raw, you got to be quicker, like a flash and have delibirate good aim. You got to be serious and precise. No grey zones.

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