Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Diffusion Filters for Portraits
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Nov 10, 2022 09:26:15   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Thomas902 wrote:
BushDog before digital I applied Diffusion during B&W printing via a nylon or silk stocking stretched over an embroidery hoop. I would vary the time this fabric was in the path of the enlarger lens to attain various degrees of delusion...

I'm thinking on long exposures you could do this with digital albeit Photoshop makes this far more controllable.
Besides post processing is ubiquitous now and is widely used in commercial work. Yes there is a learning curve for Photoshop (and LR) however the benefits of mastering these applications are huge if you are shooting commercially.

Also back in the day 52mm was the primary filter size, today it's highly variable... enough said.

Hope this helps BushDog...
BushDog before digital I applied Diffusion during ... (show quote)


I've done that long ago, Not happy with it or really wanted the effect.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 11:11:36   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
BushDog wrote:
I know the effects can be obtained with post processing but am curious about diffusion filters. Have any of you used these for portraits or other things like landscapes? And, if so, what are your thoughts?


I had a bag full of filters when I was a multi-image slide show producer and yearbook photojournalist in the '70s and '80s. GOOD RIDDANCE!

Yes, I had several soft focus filters from various brands, in various strengths, and I even made some of my own, using Vaseline spread on a clear glass protector, women's hosiery stretched on a hoop, a spritz of print adhesive misted over a UV filter... We had one particular Sailwind filter that we used for senior portraits and teachers in the school portrait market. Sailwind was a brand sold by Camera World, a legendary store in Charlotte, NC.

However, the degree of control and precision possible with digital tools is far superior to anything slapped over a camera lens. Capturing raw data files and post-processing them is more satisfying than anything I ever did with a filter.

Frankly, I would never use a filter other than Polarizer or Neutral Density for landscapes. Anything else can be done in post-processing.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 11:57:48   #
Nicholas J DeSciose
 
Steve DeMott wrote:
Interesting Topic to follow.
Can PP really duplicate all the specialty filter available?

No, overtime there have been hundreds of specialty soft focus and the diffusion Filters. There are currently more than 300 being made for the motion picture industry

Reply
 
 
Nov 10, 2022 12:11:36   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
rmalarz wrote:
I have used them in the past but found that I had better results by applying a controlled amount of diffusion in processing. I prefer my negatives and RAW files to be as sharp as possible, within reason.
--Bob



Reply
Nov 10, 2022 12:34:16   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Some like it hot, some like it cold, some like it in the pot 9-days old! Not every photographer or client has the same taste or style or preference for image quality- some like it tack-sharp and some like it soft and some lie in somewhere in between.

The OP, in this thread, mentioned portraiture and the usage of sift-focus or diffusion filters in that area of photograhy. As a commercial/portrat shooter for many decades, I can tell you this, just like you can't be a one-note musician, you can't be a one-note portrait photograher. As far as customer satisfaction is concerned, not every client wants or requires the same treatment so versatility is important.

Personally, I like low-key character studies with lots of detail- kind of a "warts and all" approach, however many of my clients have told me that they don't want their faces looking like a relief map of the Himalayas. Someof the ladies who are not necesserally familiar with photographic terminology,l simly ask for "hazy. misty, fuzzy, or dreamy" pictures. Some have told me straightforwardly, they expect virtual plastic surgery. Othere leave the approach or style to me. So, in most cases, softening devices, diffusion, and retouching are in the toolbox along with razor-sharp lenses and accompanying techniques.

Commercialization and clients aside, even as an "ARTIST" if I wish to capture someone's personality in a portrait, I certainly can't shoot everyone the same way. I do NOT tell my clients that I will change their entire face or figure but I will provide them with an artistic interpretation- that may be soft, hard, or somewhere in between! Besides, aesthetically speaking, softening techniques both at the camera and/or editing are not curealls or will guarantee flattering portraits or good likenesses. No amount of softening or retouching will vastly improve a poorly lighted, badly composed image or a shot made for an inappropriate camera angle.

When photograhers complain that they got lousy results from filters, diffusion, and soft-focus filters included, mostly that is because they either don't know how to choose or use them effectively or have purchased inferior filters. Or, perhaps they just don't like the effect and need everything to be sharp and realistic- they are certainly entitled to their own opinions and styles.

As for a soft-focus treatment, if I deiced to do that or if the client prefers that, I begin planning prior to the shoot. I will employ a soft focus prime lies or an appropriate filter because the style and application are not an afterthought so I don't leave them for post-processing. If I want to produce a variety of effects, I can simply remove the filter or change lenses. In some cases, where I just want a mild softening effect, I can use my bellows lens shade with a filter slot whereby I can insert or remove the filter in seconds.

Like many other photographic techniques and styles, soft focus and the resulting ethereal effect may be an acquired taste but it also requires an acquired skill and practice. This might requre an investment in time and money. If you start off with a poorly crafted filter you may strike out before you are up to bat. My advice is to start off with a high-quality filter such as Softer #1 and begin to put it through its paces and experiment. If you like the results you can invest in a #2 or #3 version for more pronounced effects. You can use it on portraits, certain pets, flowers, and even some landscapes. Night shots with light sources, such as lampost or neon signs in the image become magical.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 13:36:28   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Some like it hot, some like it cold, some like it in the pot 9-days old! Not every photographer or client has the same taste or style or preference for image quality- some like it tack-sharp and some like it soft and some lie in somewhere in between.

The OP, in this thread, mentioned portraiture and the usage of sift-focus or diffusion filters in that area of photograhy. As a commercial/portrat shooter for many decades, I can tell you this, just like you can't be a one-note musician, you can't be a one-note portrait photograher. As far as customer satisfaction is concerned, not every client wants or requires the same treatment so versatility is important.

Personally, I like low-key character studies with lots of detail- kind of a "warts and all" approach, however many of my clients have told me that they don't want their faces looking like a relief map of the Himalayas. Someof the ladies who are not necesserally familiar with photographic terminology,l simly ask for "hazy. misty, fuzzy, or dreamy" pictures. Some have told me straightforwardly, they expect virtual plastic surgery. Othere leave the approach or style to me. So, in most cases, softening devices, diffusion, and retouching are in the toolbox along with razor-sharp lenses and accompanying techniques.

Commercialization and clients aside, even as an "ARTIST" if I wish to capture someone's personality in a portrait, I certainly can't shoot everyone the same way. I do NOT tell my clients that I will change their entire face or figure but I will provide them with an artistic interpretation- that may be soft, hard, or somewhere in between! Besides, aesthetically speaking, softening techniques both at the camera and/or editing are not curealls or will guarantee flattering portraits or good likenesses. No amount of softening or retouching will vastly improve a poorly lighted, badly composed image or a shot made for an inappropriate camera angle.

When photograhers complain that they got lousy results from filters, diffusion, and soft-focus filters included, mostly that is because they either don't know how to choose or use them effectively or have purchased inferior filters. Or, perhaps they just don't like the effect and need everything to be sharp and realistic- they are certainly entitled to their own opinions and styles.

As for a soft-focus treatment, if I deiced to do that or if the client prefers that, I begin planning prior to the shoot. I will employ a soft focus prime lies or an appropriate filter because the style and application are not an afterthought so I don't leave them for post-processing. If I want to produce a variety of effects, I can simply remove the filter or change lenses. In some cases, where I just want a mild softening effect, I can use my bellows lens shade with a filter slot whereby I can insert or remove the filter in seconds.

Like many other photographic techniques and styles, soft focus and the resulting ethereal effect may be an acquired taste but it also requires an acquired skill and practice. This might requre an investment in time and money. If you start off with a poorly crafted filter you may strike out before you are up to bat. My advice is to start off with a high-quality filter such as Softer #1 and begin to put it through its paces and experiment. If you like the results you can invest in a #2 or #3 version for more pronounced effects. You can use it on portraits, certain pets, flowers, and even some landscapes. Night shots with light sources, such as lampost or neon signs in the image become magical.
Some like it hot, some like it cold, some like it ... (show quote)


More required reading for EVERYONE here on UHH ! 8-) THANKS

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 13:36:45   #
Sinewsworn Loc: Port Orchard, WA
 
BushDog wrote:
I know the effects can be obtained with post processing but am curious about diffusion filters. Have any of you used these for portraits or other things like landscapes? And, if so, what are your thoughts?


A nylon or two over the lens, side light the camera in addition to the subject's exposure. Lovely effect!

Reply
 
 
Nov 10, 2022 13:38:19   #
lensmaster Loc: Chicago
 
Prior to digital and Photoshop I used HARRISON DIFFUSION FILTERS. they were created for the film/movie industry and were incredible. Optical Glass sandwich with diffusion material between and came in a set of SERIES sizes from 0 to 6 in strength and effect.

Since Digital/Photoshop and 3d party filters those Harrison filters are totally obsolete. Much better control and effects within Photoshop and you have the MASTER IMAGE that is clean and sharp.

(IF you want a set of HARRISON DIFFUSION filters in series 7 and series 9 I'll sell them to you!)

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 13:40:05   #
MJPerini
 
If you want to try in camera diffusion with a filter, the best really are the Zeiss Softars (I,II, & III)
As has been recommended above, because they really do reproduce a similar look of "sharp through soft" that could be had with dedicated Portrait lenses one view cameras. Both Nikon & Canon make 135mm lenses with excellent soft effects. they can dial in chromatic aberration inn a controlled way. Nikon calls theirs DC for defocus control.
I own the Canon, and it goes from very sharp with zero softening through 1, 2,& 3 degrees of softening.
Unlike Post processing these can't be 'undone'. I also own the Hasselblad branded Softars.
It is easy to over do these, but they work.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 14:10:52   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
I like the old school description!
That is how we rolled in B & W days.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 14:50:09   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
lensmaster wrote:
Prior to digital and Photoshop I used HARRISON DIFFUSION FILTERS. they were created for the film/movie industry and were incredible. Optical Glass sandwich with diffusion material between and came in a set of SERIES sizes from 0 to 6 in strength and effect.

Since Digital/Photoshop and 3d party filters those Harrison filters are totally obsolete. Much better control and effects within Photoshop and you have the MASTER IMAGE that is clean and sharp.

(IF you want a set of HARRISON DIFFUSION filters in series 7 and series 9 I'll sell them to you!)
Prior to digital and Photoshop I used HARRISON DIF... (show quote)


The Harrison & Harrison diffusion filters are far from obsolete, they are still in use by many cinematographers and some of us old-timers in the portrat business. They are probably no longer manufactured but still in demand and are going for rater high prices on eBay and Amazon. The black dot types are popular because they introduce softness without flare. I have a fee doze on the wooden boxes. If they are not stored correctly, they tend to delaminate. If yours are in good shape, you shod get a decent price for them.

Reply
 
 
Nov 10, 2022 15:25:18   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
I've used a diffusion filter in the past for portraits (especially in my film days). I still have the diffusion filter but I never use it anymore. Like many others, I "diffuse" the skin in post processing. Why? A diffusion filter softens everything, including the eyes. I like the eyes to be sharp and crips. I can minimize (to an extent) wrinkles etc in older people through lighting techniques and further minimize it in post processing. I don't like the portrait to have, what I call, the "Barbie look" (where the skin looks plastic or worse). So I play with the photo until I get it "right".

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 18:39:26   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
photoman022 wrote:
I've used a diffusion filter in the past for portraits (especially in my film days). I still have the diffusion filter but I never use it anymore. Like many others, I "diffuse" the skin in post-processing. Why? A diffusion filter softens everything, including the eyes. I like the eyes to be sharp and crisp. I can minimize (to an extent) wrinkles etc in older people through lighting techniques and further minimize them in post-processing. I don't like the portrait to have, what I call, the "Barbie look" (where the skin looks plastic or worse). So I play with the photo until I get it "right".
I've used a diffusion filter in the past for portr... (show quote)


I really don't lie to argue too much, is, it is this will probably be my last post in the thread.

Diffusion is not necessarily "skin softening" it is an optical or physical term; the action of spreading the light from a light source evenly so as to reduce glare and harsh shadows. In the case of a diffusion "filter", it spread the lig that is reflected on this subject and will somewhat bleed the highlights into the shadows and cause a smoother transition. The "Barby Doll" skin texture is caused by excessive or inapt retouching.

When using filters or soft-focus prime lenses there are methods of retaining sharpness in the eyes.

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 19:02:51   #
OldSchool-WI Loc: Brandon, Wisconsin 53919
 
BushDog wrote:
I know the effects can be obtained with post processing but am curious about diffusion filters. Have any of you used these for portraits or other things like landscapes? And, if so, what are your thoughts?


_________________________(reply)

The old techniques in portraiture are the best. There were two schools. One the traditional with sharp focus on the eyes and very short depth of field. (then pencil or dye retouching on the negative) The other was to work into the "character" all the flaws of the face. That was Karsh of Ottowa, at the time called the "pore" photographer. Yet all the great people flocked to his studio for character shots.

My original suggestion for DIGITAL photography is to create a digital negative and follow a standard text method of pencil retouching--either digitally on a screen or actually making a high res digital print and retouching it physically and shooting it again. That way you retain sharpness and if wanted--the smoothness of a "baby's behind?"-------------------

Reply
Nov 10, 2022 19:11:21   #
redlegfrog
 
imagemeister wrote:
Yes, while not a filter in the strictest sense, I also used a silk stocking stretched over a filter ring on camera and I very much liked the results. Vaseline smeared on a clear filter can also produce interesting results ....I could never afford the Zeiss Softar 8-( ......never used these for landscapes but I am glad you raised this question/possibility.


The experimenting was part of the fun. We were doing this with film so there was a cost with every try and fail!
PS your answer shows your age!

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.