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Cost of Film
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Aug 13, 2022 10:56:23   #
stanikon Loc: Deep in the Heart of Texas
 
awesome14 wrote:
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the best film camera or the best digital camera, which would you choose, and why? I content digital is simply better than film, otherwise everyone would use film. There are many people still shooting film, but not in comparison to the number using digital. There are also people who still use VHS tapes and vinyl records, claiming they're superior.

But that's just wrong! I asked my uncle one time why he uses film. He told me one day he sat down, and based on a cost/benefit analysis, determined film was the way to go. I contended that perhaps the analysis was not complete, because he knew next to nothing about digital!

He flew off the handle and said, "Are 'you' trying to tell me what 'I' need? How would you know what 'I' need? Just keep your opinions to yourself!"

So I said, "I apologize if I offended you. But your defensive posturing tells me you know you made the wrong decision. If you thought you were correct, it wouldn't matter what I think, because I'd be incorrect. But as it is, the slightest question triggers a full onslaught of efforts to silence the truth."

He said, "I knew you were bad from the day you were born. Just get away from me, or shut up!"

I said, "It's OK to admit a mistake. In fact, that's the only way to correct them. If we simply go on justifying ourselves, we continue the same incorrect behavior, which robs us of what we could have had if only to admit our error."

He said, "What's this we, our s**t! Speak for yourself! You always were a little slow; not the sharpest tack in the box!"

I said, "Then what does that make 'you'?"

My dear uncle stomped off mumbling something about d**n kids nowadays! So, I learned. They wise value reproof. But fools spurn it. Not directly related to anything, but food for thought nonetheless.
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the be... (show quote)


I think you could have been a little more diplomatic, perhaps.

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Aug 13, 2022 11:02:26   #
BartHx
 
awesome14 wrote:
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the best film camera or the best digital camera, which would you choose, and why?

Fortunately, that is a choice I do not have to make. I use and will continue to use both. I find the use of both film and digital to be rewarding to me -- each in its own way. Your question is similar to asking which of my children I would be willing to sacrifice.

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Aug 13, 2022 11:04:57   #
DickC Loc: NE Washington state
 
awesome14 wrote:
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the best film camera or the best digital camera, which would you choose, and why? I content digital is simply better than film, otherwise everyone would use film. There are many people still shooting film, but not in comparison to the number using digital. There are also people who still use VHS tapes and vinyl records, claiming they're superior.

But that's just wrong! I asked my uncle one time why he uses film. He told me one day he sat down, and based on a cost/benefit analysis, determined film was the way to go. I contended that perhaps the analysis was not complete, because he knew next to nothing about digital!

He flew off the handle and said, "Are 'you' trying to tell me what 'I' need? How would you know what 'I' need? Just keep your opinions to yourself!"

So I said, "I apologize if I offended you. But your defensive posturing tells me you know you made the wrong decision. If you thought you were correct, it wouldn't matter what I think, because I'd be incorrect. But as it is, the slightest question triggers a full onslaught of efforts to silence the truth."

He said, "I knew you were bad from the day you were born. Just get away from me, or shut up!"

I said, "It's OK to admit a mistake. In fact, that's the only way to correct them. If we simply go on justifying ourselves, we continue the same incorrect behavior, which robs us of what we could have had if only to admit our error."

He said, "What's this we, our s**t! Speak for yourself! You always were a little slow; not the sharpest tack in the box!"

I said, "Then what does that make 'you'?"

My dear uncle stomped off mumbling something about d**n kids nowadays! So, I learned. They wise value reproof. But fools spurn it. Not directly related to anything, but food for thought nonetheless.
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the be... (show quote)


Glad I don't have an uncle like that!!

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Aug 13, 2022 11:15:23   #
awesome14 Loc: UK
 
[quote=tcthome]
BartHx wrote:
Even amortized over a reasonable expected life span, what is the cost of the computer(s), editing software, digital photo printer(s), etc. for digital photography? Nobody seems to take those expenses into account when comparing film costs to digital. If we take those costs into account I would expect the difference between Bob's B&W numbers and digital numbers would be considerably less. I have been processing and printing B&W for well over 60 years and silver prints are permanent. I also occasionally print from family negatives that are well over 100 years old and experiencing no degradation -- yes, the nitrates do need to be stored and handled carefully but so do a lot of things. What is the life span of digital media and will anyone be able to read those files in 100 years? As Bob points ]
Even amortized over a reasonable expected life spa... (show quote)


B&W has one advantage, the prints last the longest. The best achival inkjet or dye-sub photo paper only lasts 150 years before it starts fading. B&W ahould last at least 300 years. As far as the total cost, for B&W you need to figure the cost of darkroom equipment (1,500.00-2,000.00), cameras (500.00), film and processing supplies (0.15/ea.)

For digital you need to figure a PC (1,500.00-3,000.00), software (20.00/mo., free software doesn't count, because it doesn't do much), camera (5,000.00), storage media (CF, 500.00, but more reliable than SD cards) batteries (500.00.), and printer (1,000.00+). So, B&W comes out less expensive. But B&W film isn't as good as digital color in most ways.

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Aug 13, 2022 11:30:56   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
An interesting narrative but you must have missed a statement I made in my initial post in this thread. So, I'll quote it here, "Oddly, people still try to compare film and digital. They are two entirely different media that accomplish close to the same thing. I can do things in each that are difficult or impossible to accomplish in the other. I thoroughly enjoy the entire process of taking and processing film photographs." (to which I'll add the same enjoyments to making digital photographs)

Additionally, a description of the best would be in order. There isn't a best. Just look at the number of comments regarding best here on UHH. So, it's better to ask one's preference instead of best. Here again, we have a conundrum in preference. To what use is one going to put the camera? Each of the choices with which one may be presented will have definite advantages over the others but will not satisfy all requirements.

So, it's a fool's argument to take sides on which is better. It's a matter of choosing which tool will be the best for the job at hand. Additionally, the knowledgeable skill level of that hand will take the best advantage of that choice of tool.

Now, going back to the premise of the post, it was to address, with factual data, the statement that using film is too expensive. Which I used my personal choice of film formats as an example. The post was never intended to extol film over digital, or vice versa.
--Bob


awesome14 wrote:
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the best film camera or the best digital camera, which would you choose, and why? I content digital is simply better than film, otherwise everyone would use film. There are many people still shooting film, but not in comparison to the number using digital. There are also people who still use VHS tapes and vinyl records, claiming they're superior.

But that's just wrong! I asked my uncle one time why he uses film. He told me one day he sat down, and based on a cost/benefit analysis, determined film was the way to go. I contended that perhaps the analysis was not complete, because he knew next to nothing about digital!

He flew off the handle and said, "Are 'you' trying to tell me what 'I' need? How would you know what 'I' need? Just keep your opinions to yourself!"

So I said, "I apologize if I offended you. But your defensive posturing tells me you know you made the wrong decision. If you thought you were correct, it wouldn't matter what I think, because I'd be incorrect. But as it is, the slightest question triggers a full onslaught of efforts to silence the truth."

He said, "I knew you were bad from the day you were born. Just get away from me, or shut up!"

I said, "It's OK to admit a mistake. In fact, that's the only way to correct them. If we simply go on justifying ourselves, we continue the same incorrect behavior, which robs us of what we could have had if only to admit our error."

He said, "What's this we, our s**t! Speak for yourself! You always were a little slow; not the sharpest tack in the box!"

I said, "Then what does that make 'you'?"

My dear uncle stomped off mumbling something about d**n kids nowadays! So, I learned. They wise value reproof. But fools spurn it. Not directly related to anything, but food for thought nonetheless.
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the be... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 13, 2022 15:46:23   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
awesome14 wrote:
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the best film camera or the best digital camera, which would you choose, and why? I content digital is simply better than film, otherwise everyone would use film. There are many people still shooting film, but not in comparison to the number using digital. There are also people who still use VHS tapes and vinyl records, claiming they're superior.

But that's just wrong! I asked my uncle one time why he uses film. He told me one day he sat down, and based on a cost/benefit analysis, determined film was the way to go. I contended that perhaps the analysis was not complete, because he knew next to nothing about digital!

He flew off the handle and said, "Are 'you' trying to tell me what 'I' need? How would you know what 'I' need? Just keep your opinions to yourself!"

So I said, "I apologize if I offended you. But your defensive posturing tells me you know you made the wrong decision. If you thought you were correct, it wouldn't matter what I think, because I'd be incorrect. But as it is, the slightest question triggers a full onslaught of efforts to silence the truth."

He said, "I knew you were bad from the day you were born. Just get away from me, or shut up!"

I said, "It's OK to admit a mistake. In fact, that's the only way to correct them. If we simply go on justifying ourselves, we continue the same incorrect behavior, which robs us of what we could have had if only to admit our error."

He said, "What's this we, our s**t! Speak for yourself! You always were a little slow; not the sharpest tack in the box!"

I said, "Then what does that make 'you'?"

My dear uncle stomped off mumbling something about d**n kids nowadays! So, I learned. They wise value reproof. But fools spurn it. Not directly related to anything, but food for thought nonetheless.
Riddle me this, if you had a choice between the be... (show quote)


Digital is more convenient than film. I'm still not convinced that it's better. It sure is easier though. I do miss the warmth of film.

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Aug 13, 2022 17:59:59   #
BebuLamar
 
[quote=josquin1the warmth of film.[/quote]

????

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Aug 14, 2022 20:01:26   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
les spencer wrote:
Been there. Done that. Move on.....


Who are you specifically responding to? Been where? Done what? Moving on to what?

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Aug 14, 2022 23:01:12   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
RodeoMan wrote:
Who are you specifically responding to? Been where? Done what? Moving on to what?


Who cares?

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Aug 15, 2022 00:11:52   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Who cares?


I cared that is why I asked, but thank you "les spencer".

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Aug 15, 2022 05:26:15   #
Bbarn Loc: Ohio
 
I don't see myself going back to film, nor going back to LPs. I still have film cameras and turntables, but both get almost zero use. The benefits of digital simply outweigh those of analog for me. Others feel differently. Its nice to have a choice.

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Aug 15, 2022 13:32:17   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
I have a lot of old film in my freezer, but I don't use it much. I am addicted to the immediacy of digital. I can see what I have right away. I still have my development materials nearby, so I could do my B&W anytime. Colour, I would have to send out. But for both, I would still scan the negatives and work on them digitally. The days of printing are gone forever.

You are right about the joys of looking at the roll of negatives. The same about watching the image develop on the paper in the developer. People now don't understand the joys of processing film.

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Aug 15, 2022 13:56:45   #
AndyT Loc: Hampstead, New Hampshire
 
I just pulled out my Hasselblad 500C/M this past weekend. Ill send the film in, have it scanned, and delivered to my computer. For those of you that have ever used one...."Ka-chunk".

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Aug 15, 2022 16:29:58   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I use a 500C quite often. It goes either way.
--Bob
AndyT wrote:
I just pulled out my Hasselblad 500C/M this past weekend. Ill send the film in, have it scanned, and delivered to my computer. For those of you that have ever used one...."Ka-chunk".

Reply
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