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Lens or Aperture
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Aug 2, 2022 10:23:36   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
When selecting an aperture setting, sweet spot is the least thing I think about.

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Aug 2, 2022 10:31:25   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Wow, a quite interesting topic with no definite answer. Sharpness can be subjective, and of course, it depends on one's quality of vision as well and more importantly, what the image produced is being viewed on or printed with. The optical resolution, on the other hand, has a finite definition that can be evaluated in a scientifically measurable manner which eliminates any subjective debate as to "which lens or aperture is better" for the evaluation is in the numbers.

This link explains the optical resolution of lenses and how they are measured and determined:

https://www.photonics.com/Articles/Calculating_Lens_Resolution_with_Precision/a65773

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Aug 2, 2022 10:34:02   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
camerapapi wrote:
I am sure the majority of us know that 50mm lenses are among the best corrected lenses for optical aberrations. I have a single coated, early 70's, 50mm Nikon lens that is as sharp as I wanted it to be. I admit I have not cared about the corners so I do not really know how good it is wide open and honestly I could not care less. I seldom use it wide open and most of the time I am at f5.6 or beyond.

Before this lens I had a Nikon 50mm f1.8 that was also very sharp and once again I never tested the lens for its resolution in the corners. Till now I have enlarged images to 12x18 inches from my lenses and the corners never bothered me. I certainly believe that modern lenses are very sharp due to the advances in optics and coatings. My old 50mm lens cannot be pointed at a source of light because flare is simply horrific, result of a single coating. Even the sharpest lens means nothing without good shooting techniques and the rule of stopping the lens down about three apertures from wide open still applies to most lenses. If depth of field is not important that f5.6 will render the sharpest images but if f16 is what we need that will be the aperture we should use and the results most probably will be the same regarding sharpness. As we close the lens to its smaller apertures diffraction takes place but nothing that at least in my case will make me feel it will spoil my images.

Tripods and VR are making lenses better than ever...IF we use good techniques when shooting.
I am sure the majority of us know that 50mm lenses... (show quote)


Actually some of those old lenses are very good but of course these days people seem to want the auto focus and aperture, but those old lenses have characteristics that newer lenses don't have. I have a bunch of old nifty fifties from the 50's 60's and 70's because at one time I was collecting those old beauties. Anyway, what you said is true, often a 1.7 lens is reviewed as being sharper across the wider open settings than the 1.4's. I have never really done much analysis on that but I know that the old Pentax 1.7 is supposed to be one of the sharpest 50's that Pentax produced in that era. I have three different versions of the old fully metal Takumar 50/1.4 and they are all good but the 55/1.8 also is excellent and has a different character than do the 50/1.4s. I have old Nikon, Olympus, Vivitar, Konica, and a bunch of Pentax lenses in my collection as well as a few other manufacturers such as Ricoh, Heilos, and old Zeiss Zebra....

With Mirrorless cameras these days there are no limitations in mounting those old lenses.

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Aug 2, 2022 12:46:27   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
As for "cleaning up" his website, that would be a mistake. Suppose someone is considering buying old equipment, it would be nice to see reviews of that gear.


I agree to a point. His reviews of older equipment should stay, but they're often full of "best this and best that" statements, and it should be clear that these statements should be taken in the context of when the reviews were done. Sometimes he does update his reviews with relevant disclaimers.

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Aug 2, 2022 13:00:38   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
There is so much more to an image other than sharpness.


True, but sharpness is one aspect of a good image, and this article shows one way to achieve it.

I thought it was funny that "Blurryeyed" is writing about image sharpness. No offense intended.

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Aug 2, 2022 13:29:23   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
There is so much more to an image other than sharpness. A kit lens can produce remarkable images. I don't think that you purchase a fast lens because you expect it to produce the sharpest images, IMO you do so for low light shooting or portrait effects.


Exactly. If I buy a lens, while it might be slightly better at a certain f-stop, I expect it to perform at whatever aperture I need for the image I want.

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Aug 2, 2022 13:30:15   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
When we start talking about the newest and most expensive designs, we're also now talking about both.


That is the beauty of my Z mount lenses and my Oly Pro lenses.

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Aug 2, 2022 13:50:07   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
That is the beauty of my Z mount lenses and my Oly Pro lenses.


Testing 50 year old lenses will have predictable results. They will perform best 2-3 stops from wide open. That's just the way things were. Modern lenses perform about equally well at all f/stops, which isn't to say that they won't have a sweet spot, but this is a notable difference. Ken Rockwell should perform his testing of newer lenses on a modern camera and include the older lenses for comparison to give people a sense of current reality and help them make better choices. This is one of the things I mean about his not updating his web site.

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Aug 2, 2022 14:00:48   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
jerryc41 wrote:
True, but sharpness is one aspect of a good image, and this article shows one way to achieve it.

I thought it was funny that "Blurryeyed" is writing about image sharpness. No offense intended.


You would have to look at my Flickr page and review my macro shots to understand the joke, these images were from before everyone got into photo stacking and yes, I have to wear reading glasses, hence Blurryeyed, but my macro work from years ago would suggest different. It was a joke but it's a pretty good name for this site.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gefforyk

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Aug 2, 2022 15:40:24   #
fchretdet
 
I was just reading through the "Newest Topics" and found this post. Thanks for sharing it. The more I read these suggestions and work to apply them, the better my results become. Just a shame I didn't start this hobby/past time earlier.

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Aug 2, 2022 16:17:30   #
geajr
 
User ID wrote:
Worthwhile ?!? ROTFL.



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Aug 2, 2022 17:07:04   #
User ID
 
therwol wrote:
Ken Rockwell did his testing of various Nikon 50mm lenses in 2006 using a Nikon D200 10.2 megapixel camera. The camera is an antique by today's standards. The lenses were mostly old designs even then. I own three of the lenses he tested, and they're decent lenses, but I don't think that the ancient camera is good enough to discern subtle differences you might see in a more modern camera. Furthermore, none of the lenses tested would likely hold up against more modern designs on a high megapixel camera, maybe at their optimum apertures, but certainly not wide open or nearly wide open.

I respect him for his knowledge of equipment and history. I always read his reviews of new cameras and lenses and find them to be informative. One of the things he admitted to me personally is that he just doesn't have time to go back and clean up his web site of all of the old and obsolete (useless) stuff. (I questioned him on a digital versus film article in which he compared the results from a 6 megapixel digital camera with those of a 4x5 film camera.) He has gotten somewhat better in going back to insert comments into some old reviews to point out that something better has come along. Not in this case.
Ken Rockwell did his testing of various Nikon 50mm... (show quote)

KR is under no obligation to do a major backfilling of dated material. The reader is responsible to notice the dates and apply common sense in extrapolating to the present.

The retro nature of old material is more valuable left exactly as it was and is. If you need the latest dope on the latest tech, thaz available wherever you look.

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Aug 2, 2022 22:22:06   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I was browsing reviews, and I came across a "Nikon 50mm Lens Comparison" by Ken Rockwell. "Your choice of aperture is far more important than your choice of lens!" He has five shots of the same cropped area taken at different apertures. In this example, f/5.6 is the definite winner. I know the topic of a lens's sweet spot has been discussed before, but it would be worthwhile to set up a tripod and find out what camera and lens combination gives the best results.


I have been shooting in the highest f/stop ranges, f/22 to f/32 and getting everything in focus for years now. I know I get some slight softness in the details from diffraction, but that is completely correctible with sharpening programs I have in Photoshop to correct the softness. I have an action that can even revive a slightly blurry image and make it tack sharp.

So why should I worry about gaining an insignificant amount of acuity in an image at the sacrifice of getting the whole subject in focus?

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Aug 3, 2022 16:37:10   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I was browsing reviews, and I came across a "Nikon 50mm Lens Comparison" by Ken Rockwell. "Your choice of aperture is far more important than your choice of lens!" He has five shots of the same cropped area taken at different apertures. In this example, f/5.6 is the definite winner. I know the topic of a lens's sweet spot has been discussed before, but it would be worthwhile to set up a tripod and find out what camera and lens combination gives the best results.


Yes, it is important to know the sharpest aperture of any lens you have. And it would be great to shoot at that aperture all the time. But what are the chances you will only shoot at that aperture? The lens's quality is the lens quality overall. I would rather have a lens with relatively high aperture quality overall that a lense that had high aperture quality at one specific aperture and not the rest.

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Aug 3, 2022 16:42:45   #
User ID
 
Fotoartist wrote:
I have been shooting in the highest f/stop ranges, f/22 to f/32 and getting everything in focus for years now. I know I get some slight softness in the details from diffraction, but that is completely correctible with sharpening programs I have in Photoshop to correct the softness. I have an action that can even revive a slightly blurry image and make it tack sharp.

So why should I worry about gaining an insignificant amount of acuity in an image at the sacrifice of getting the whole subject in focus?
I have been shooting in the highest f/stop ranges,... (show quote)

AMEN !!!!!!

And likewise for high ISO whenever helpful to achieve really great DoF.

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