"Thee" or "Thuh"? (Page 5): There are different southern accents. People from Kentucky sound very different from people in South Carolina or along the Gulf Coast. Much more twangy than...

therwol Loc: USA

jerryc41 wrote:

That's a new one on me.

Somewhat related. I was having breakfast in a southern diner a few years ago. It was crowded, with lots of talking. The waitress said to a man, "You're not from around here, are you?" No, he was from another southern state. To me, they all had southern accents. It's like around here, though. I can tell someone from farther upstate or near the City by how they speak.

There are different southern accents. People from Kentucky sound very different from people in South Carolina or along the Gulf Coast. Much more twangy than the gentle lilt heard in speech in the rest of the south. As for NY accents, people from Brooklyn (like Bernie Sanders) sound very different from people in the Bronx. I lived in the Bronx for 4 years. I know.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

whatdat wrote:

I have never heard the pronounced in a way that sounded like “ick”. I have heard it pronounced the 2 ways Jerry mentioned, though. Always thought “the” was used when next word started with a vowel, & “thuh” when followed by a word that begins with a consonant

I was not referring to the sound of "ick", but just the short 'I' in that word. Probably somewhere among the I in ick and the u in thuh and the a in ah.

jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana

From th old (literally) English teacher: here we go again!

RonBoyd

The purpose of language is communication. One can, of course, spend huge amounts of time discussing whether the message as intended got through or not... there is fun in that. But bottom line, however, is that form (rules) is not all that important... thee, thuh, thou should be understood by anyone with a basic command of the English language.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

[quote=burkphoto...I'm all for learning standards, but I'm equally in favor of learning as many variations on the common theme as time permits...[/quote]

therwol Loc: USA

RonBoyd wrote:

But bottom line, however, is that form (rules) is not all that important... thee, thuh, thou should be understood by anyone with a basic command of the English language.

There is a difference between spoken language and written language. Except for the odd colloquialisms, English speakers understand other English speakers from around the world when they speak, even if they don't follow what we would consider the rules of grammar or pronunciation. Written language is different. It has to be precise and uniform, and that's where agreed upon grammar, spelling and usage become important.

RonBoyd

therwol wrote:

There is a difference between spoken language and written language. Except for the odd colloquialisms, English speakers understand other English speakers from around the world when they speak, even if they don't follow what we would consider the rules of grammar or pronunciation. Written language is different. It has to be precise and uniform, and that's where agreed upon grammar, spelling and usage become important.

Perhaps. However, e.e.cummins comes instantly to mind but I am sure there are others if I gave it some thought... Dr. Seuss?

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

bwana wrote:

Never heard the 'thee' version except at church!

bwa

"The" and "thee" are not the same word at all. "Thee" is an old term that roughly translates as "you" and is related to/paired with "thou" which also means "you". For the majority of people they are mostly used in religion* but some groups speak a form of English that still uses them in their historic forms.

"I implore thee to live a good life that thou may enter the kingdom of Heaven." = "I implore you to live a good life that you may enter the kingdom of Heaven."

*The "King James" bible is in a form of English spoken a few centuries ago when it was translated by scholars working for King James I.

therwol Loc: USA

RonBoyd wrote:

Perhaps. However, e.e.cummins comes instantly to mind but I am sure there are others if I gave it some though... Dr. Seuss?

Poetry is one thing. Contracts and scholarly papers and treaties are another. There can't be any ambiguity. There are many other examples.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Ogden Nash was a master of the English language.
He mastered it by force and violence.

There once was a girl from Connecticut
Who flagged down a train with her Pecticut
Which her elders defined
As great presence of mind
But deplorable absence of Ecticut.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

therwol wrote:

There is a difference between spoken language and written language. Except for the odd colloquialisms, English speakers understand other English speakers from around the world when they speak, even if they don't follow what we would consider the rules of grammar or pronunciation. Written language is different. It has to be precise and uniform, and that's where agreed upon grammar, spelling and usage become important.

Writing precisely according to rules of good form is appreciated most in serious academic journals, where peers are generally playing by the same rules.

Serious journalists usually abide by the stylebooks of their organizations.

Teachers, corporate trainers, lawyers, engineers, senior business people, and marketing communications people do need to be precise when writing.

But one hour spent on any social media platform will verify that few care very much about precision and uniformity. Social media are generally spoken word conversations held in the vernacular and typed in haste.

Text messages among teens are a good example of informal written communications... Many of them are simply abbreviated slang.

Fiction authors have free reign to write according to the nature of the characters they create. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn is a fantastic example of that. (I can't believe people want to ban and burn that book! It is brilliantly written, priceless American literature.)

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

DirtFarmer wrote:

Ogden Nash was a master of the English language.
He mastered it by force and violence.

There once was a girl from Connecticut
Who flagged down a train with her Pecticut
Which her elders defined
As great presence of mind
But deplorable absence of Ecticut.

ROTFFLMAO!

Love it. "by force and violence."

Stephan G

jerryc41 wrote:

You're thinking of the Harry Belafonte song - Day-O.

https://www.google.com/search?q=banana+boat+song&sxsrf=ALiCzsZKcUbI_e01gy6MMK3q86jJ18-p5g%3A1657720609984&ei=Ic_OYpLOO5Sh5NoPo8eO6AQ&ved=0ahUKEwjS4uDAgvb4AhWUEFkFHaOjA00Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=banana+boat+song&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEcyBAgAEEc6BwgAEEcQsANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQ0wpY0wpgqxpoAXACeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

Speaking (I know, I know, Typing!) of which. We have now "Good" for "Bad" because of a song. :smo2:

therwol Loc: USA

burkphoto wrote:

Fiction authors have free reign to write according to the nature of the characters they create. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn is a fantastic example of that. (I can't believe people want to ban and burn that book! It is brilliantly written, priceless American literature.)

My understanding of the push to ban Huckleberry Finn has to do with the use of the "N word" in the dialogue. Ignorant people don't understand that Twain was simply writing in the language commonly used in the mid-19th century, the language he heard and probably used growing up. Not only that, the book has a profoundly anti-slavery/anti-racist theme.

I took an English class in college that only concerned Twain's writings. The only flaw in that book is that he never figured out how to end it, and it took him a long time to finish it. The last part of the book is not considered as great as the first part. Well, so what.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

therwol wrote:

My understanding of the push to ban Huckleberry Fi... (show quote)

Agreed. I have First Printing copy of that double book that I read as a kid in 1966. We were living in Greensboro, NC, then. It was particularly timely reading, considering all the racial unrest in the area at the time.