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Yet another lens question
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Jun 30, 2022 12:42:42   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
davyboy wrote:
Those kit lens just mentioned I use on my rebel T6s capabilities I have 11x14 mounts no problems. Low light will produce some noise but with all these new programs like Denoise should do ok



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Jun 30, 2022 12:44:47   #
williejoha
 
I would make sure that the quality of your shots ( sharpness) are not related to operator issues. Mount the camera on a tripod, put your f stop at 8, focus using single point and use the timer to activate the shutter. Find out what the sweet spot ( f-stop) of your lens is and then make your decision.
WJH

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Jun 30, 2022 12:58:34   #
RKL349 Loc: Connecticut
 
KindaSpikey wrote:
So here we go. I absolutely love photography, but I am a complete amature. I'm slowly learning, and some of my results ain't half bad, (the other half are terrible by the way), lol. Anyway, I currently own a Canon T7i, which I realize is not the latest, greatest piece of equipment out there, but it's the best I could afford at the time, and I am on an extremely limited budget. I have the two "kit lenses" that were supplied with the camera, 18-55 efs, and a 55-250 efs. Both have served me reasonably well, but I'm somewhat disappointed with the lack of quality /sharpness, and would like to add another lens to what I already have. There's nothing in particular that I regularly shoot, just whatever happens to catch my eye in the moment.
So here's the question, which I'm sure some of you may find amusing. Could any of you suggest what could be a good choice for my next lens? I really don't know what I'm asking for. As I said, I'm on a VERY limited budget so I have no problem buying used. I'd just like something sharper, that has some versatility (some kind of zoom perhaps)? I also am not concerned about the brand, although I'd prefer it to be compatible without the need for adapters.
Any advice would be hugely appreciated, and I apologize for what is probably a dumb question for most of you. Thank you in advance everyone, and please stay safe and have a great day, all the best,
Ray.
So here we go. I absolutely love photography, but ... (show quote)


For me, a prime lens is a must. If you have any thoughts of shooting streets and some buildings, a 50mm f/1.8 can be a great addition to your kit.

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Jun 30, 2022 13:00:22   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Photec wrote:
Simplify your learning experience. I suggest that you get a used 50mm lens (preferably manual focus) and put both of your zoom lenses on the shelf for a while. Start with the basics and learn to see and mentally imagine what you would like to see different scenes as a photograph, one at a time. Don't get all hung up on of the modern gadgets on modern cameras yet, start by learning to see the picture in your mind's eye. Then, with the simplest camera and lens, learn to frame and control the image in your camera to create what your mind's eye is telling you to do.
The first thing will be the subject, select what the picture is to be about. Each good photograph should have one (1) subject to create 1 story.
Next, set your composition to tell that story completely and simply. As you need to show more or less of the overall scene you are looking at, that your "subject" happens to be in. Get closer to, or farther away, to add more or less story information. At this point I always suggest that you vigorously practice the KISS system, (Keep It Simple Stupid); that almost always works for me.
Now that you have determined your scene, and also your subject for the photograph, isolate how you want to portray that subject according to your mind's eye. Do you want very shallow depth of field, or do you everything to appear sharp? That will be determined by your lens to subject distance and your focal length/aperture based on the 50mm lens. For learning photography, zoom lenses really do confuse this step, and postponing zoom lenses until later really speeds up the learning curve. Position your camera capture the area and subject in the position to create the best impact of the story.
After you have begun to master this lens, you will be able to quickly learn how to use the lenses you already have sitting on a shelf somewhere. You will have learned to SEE you scene/subject as a picture, Compose and expose it as a photograph, and capture it as your mind's eye visualized it.
Good luck and happy shooting.
Simplify your learning experience. I suggest that ... (show quote)


Excellent advice.

It was just about 50 years ago I took my first photography class. We all had to shoot with 50mm lenses. Of course back then 50mm was almost considered the kit lens for every 35mm camera.

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Jun 30, 2022 13:35:27   #
nealbralley Loc: Kansas
 
If it were one lens: a relatively late model 24-70mm, f/2.8, zoom lens -- take your choice of manufacturer. If you can buy two lenses: 24-70 f/2.8 and then a 70-200mm, f/2.8, again, take your choice of manufacturer. You can go with Canon, and spend a lot more of your money, or you can go with Tamron or Sigma, for example, and you will still get very high quality lenses for your money, substantially less money. When you aren't shooting with the very highest and latest quality camera, Tamron and Sigma will absolutely provide you with superb results. You won't see much better quality from a Canon, Nikon, or Sony lens of the same focal length and aperture range. With the highest-end, very high resolution, cameras in the hands of the most talented photographers, you may begin to see some minute differences, but for most photographers Sigma, Tamron, or some of the other manufacturers' lenses will be more than "good enough!" As I have heard stated elsewhere in other circles, "Perfection is the enemy of good enough."

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Jun 30, 2022 13:47:19   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
davyboy wrote:
The question is not if the 70-300 is better but can the 50-250 produce good images and I say it’s capable of doin such


Yes it is ........unless you are looking for something - BETTER ......the OP HAS the 55-250 and wonders if there is something reasonably priced that is BETTER - and, there IS ! As I mentioned, I had BOTH at the same time and tested them .....Once you SEE the difference you will not look back - this is the objective reality ! This is why the 70-300 costs MORE - and - people pay it - gladly !
.

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Jun 30, 2022 13:56:10   #
revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson
 
I am another fan of the 18-135mm lens. It is sharp enough and variable enough to cover most situations. Get the latest, USM, version. Used on eBay or one of the larger online houses would have one at a reasonable price. This lens would perfectly cover your style of shooting: "There's nothing in particular that I regularly shoot, just whatever happens to catch my eye in the moment."

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Jun 30, 2022 13:57:08   #
kkayser
 
test the lenses. Get a tripod and photograph something with a lot of detail (a brick building). Shoot various lengths and apertures. If the images are sharp, your lenses and settings are ok. Then hand hold and compare images. If you use a test target you can get more precise results.

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Jun 30, 2022 14:13:24   #
RichKenn Loc: Merritt Island, FL
 
i DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CANON LENSES BUT i WILL BET THEY DON'T MAKE ANY JUNK. i SUGGEST YOU CAREFULLY EVALUATE YOUR PICTURE TAKING TECHNIQUE. ALWAYS USE A TRIPOD AND REMOTE SHUTTER RELEASE WHEN POSSIBLE. SET YOUR ISO UP SOME, MAYBE TO 400 OR 800 SO YOU CAN HAVE A FAST SHUTTER SPED WHEN HAND HOLDING. DON'T WORRY ABOUT NOISE. THAT CONCERN IS OVERBLOWN. READ ALL YOU CAN ABOUT HOW TO FOCUS YOUR CAMERA. THERE MAY BE SOME TRICK YOU ARE MISSING. DON'T THINK SPENDING MONEY IS GOING TO HELP. GOOD LUCK!

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Jun 30, 2022 15:53:11   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
KindaSpikey wrote:
So here we go. I absolutely love photography, but I am a complete amature. I'm slowly learning, and some of my results ain't half bad, (the other half are terrible by the way), lol. Anyway, I currently own a Canon T7i, which I realize is not the latest, greatest piece of equipment out there, but it's the best I could afford at the time, and I am on an extremely limited budget. I have the two "kit lenses" that were supplied with the camera, 18-55 efs, and a 55-250 efs. Both have served me reasonably well, but I'm somewhat disappointed with the lack of quality /sharpness, and would like to add another lens to what I already have. There's nothing in particular that I regularly shoot, just whatever happens to catch my eye in the moment.
So here's the question, which I'm sure some of you may find amusing. Could any of you suggest what could be a good choice for my next lens? I really don't know what I'm asking for. As I said, I'm on a VERY limited budget so I have no problem buying used. I'd just like something sharper, that has some versatility (some kind of zoom perhaps)? I also am not concerned about the brand, although I'd prefer it to be compatible without the need for adapters.
Any advice would be hugely appreciated, and I apologize for what is probably a dumb question for most of you. Thank you in advance everyone, and please stay safe and have a great day, all the best,
Ray.
So here we go. I absolutely love photography, but ... (show quote)


First of all, the two "kit" lenses you have are pretty capable. Just based upon your description, is likely your "technique" that would be where you need to pay attention.

All lenses have their "optimal" aperture... the f-stop where they are their sharpest. With a consumer grade zoom, I'd expect it to be one to two stops closed down from wide open. Since both of yours are f/3.5-5.6 or f/4-5.6 lenses, at the wide end (shorter focal length), stop down to at least f/5.6.... at the longer focal length end of the zoom range, try stopping down to f/8.

Also don't use TOO SMALL an aperture. With your camera's resolution, you should try to use f/11 or larger apertures. At smaller apertures such as f/16 and especially f/22 or smaller an effect called "diffraction" starts to rob images of fine detail.

Your lenses have Image Stabilization. That can help when hand holding shots, but you still need to do your part by using a fast enough shutter speed and making reasonably effort to hand hold the camera as steady as possible.

It may be better at times to turn off IS, which causes the lens elements to "lock" in place, then use a tripod or a much faster shutter speed.

Focus accuracy is critical. The lack of sharpness you see may be slight focus error. There are some ways you can optimize focus accuracy:

- Be sure you're using the correct auto focus mode: AI Servo for moving subjects or One Shot for stationary subjects. Never use AI Focus... that's just another level of automation, where the camera is supposed to decide for you whether the subject is moving or not, then use either AI Servo or One Shot. I haven't tried using it in many years, but last time I did I found it seems to cause a bit of delay while it decides and also doesn't always choose correctly. It is possible to make AI Servo your default mode and use it for everything (see below: Back Button Focusing).

- The fewer AF points you have active, the more accurate AF can be. The very best is just a Single Point. However, that's also the most work for you, keeping that AF point right on target, where you want the camera and lens to focus. Your camera also can be set to Zones... a group of nine AF points active within the 45-point array. This may be what's needed in some situations, such as fast and erratically moving subjects. There also is a "Large Zone" mode where fifteen AF points are activated and finally there is an All Points setting that's sort of a "point n shoot" where all forty five points are active. The more points you have active, the greater the chance the camera will focus somewhere you don't want it... on something in the foreground or the background. Say you are shooting a bird flying past and have Zone active, chances are the camera and lens will focus on the closest wing tip, putting the bird's had and body out of focus. Using Single Point and keeping it on the bird's head and eye isn't easy, but it is more likely to produce an accurately focused image.

- Your lenses may be "STM", indicating they use a "stepper motor" type of focus drive. If they don't say "STM" on them, then they are a slower, noisier and potentially less accurate "micro motor" focus drive. STM is a better form of focus drive. But for particularly fast focus as needed by highly active subjects, "USM" or "ultrasonic motor" is even better. There is only one Canon lens I know of where they have both STM and USM versions, the EF-S 18-135mm IS has been available with both of the better forms of AF drive. Canon claims the USM lens is 2X to 4X faster focusing. Both EF-S 18-55 and EF-S 55-250 have been made in micro motor and STM versions, but never in USM versions. If you are shooting highly active subjects, USM lenses can likely help with their faster focusing... however they are considerably more expensive. Some examples are the EF-S 17-55mm IS USM, EF-S 15-85mm IS USM, two verions of EF 70-300mm IS USM and several versions of EF 70-200mm IS USM.

- Many modern zooms, especially the more affordable ones, are "varifocal" designs. This means that when you change the focal length, when you "zoom" the lens, it doesn't maintain focus. You have to re-focus after any change in focal length. This is where using One Shot mode can get you in trouble. Say you focus with it, focus is achieved, locks and you get focus confirmation from the camera... then you change the focal length. The focus doesn't update itself. You have to remember to lift off the half-pressed shutter release button, then reapply pressure on it to make the camera and lens refocus. However, if you are using AI Servo, that's a continuous form of AF for use with moving subjects that will automatically correct the focus of that zoom after you've adjusted the focal length.

- However, it also isn't a good idea to use AI Servo all the time. It can get you in trouble, too.... Unless you use Back Button Focusing (BBF). This is a technique where you remove the AF function from the shutter release button and reassign it to a button under your thumb, so that you can start and stop AF as needed. This makes it possible to use AI Servo full time and rarely have to change focusing modes at all. On your T7i BBF is set up with Custom Function 12, option 3. Once this is done, the "*" button on the back of your camera becomes your control to turn AF on and off. This is a popular setup among sports and wildlife shooters, in particular. But it can be useful to nearly anyone. Personally I learned to use this over 20 years ago and have used it on every Canon camera since.

You wrote "There's nothing in particular that I regularly shoot, just whatever happens to catch my eye in the moment." But you REALLY need to take some time to look at your own shots, seeing what is catching your eye to try to narrow it down. Until you do that it's pretty much impossible to recommend a specific lens. Maybe you shoot a lot of landscapes or architecture and a wider lens would be useful. Or maybe you shoot a lot of sports and need a faster focusing telephoto. Or maybe you shoot a lot of close ups and need a macro lens. Or maybe it's portraits of family and friends, or even street photography, which could be done better with certain lenses.

There may be other things we could suggest, if you would upload some example images here. Use the attachment feature and be sure to keep the EXIF data on the file and to check "store original" during the upload, so we can see the image enlarged.

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Jun 30, 2022 17:56:06   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
Nicholas J DeSciose wrote:
If you want sharper pictures use a tripod


OK, thanks for the suggestion. Wish I'd thought of that

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Jun 30, 2022 18:26:08   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Focus accuracy is critical. The lack of sharpness you see may be slight focus error. There are some ways you can optimize focus accuracy:- The fewer AF points you have active, the more accurate AF can be. The very best is just a Single Point. However, that's also the most work for you, keeping that AF point right on target, where you want the camera and lens to focus.



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Jun 30, 2022 18:37:16   #
ecommons
 
They are either half good or half bad..... but never terrible

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Jun 30, 2022 20:41:54   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
KindaSpikey wrote:
So here we go. I absolutely love photography, but I am a complete amature. I'm slowly learning, and some of my results ain't half bad, (the other half are terrible by the way), lol. ..Ray.


Ray 50% is pretty good!

I’m not a Canon shooter however I do a lot of walking around photography. I have found a zoom lens that I use a LOT for walking around and everything, and it has a range of 24-90 mm (Full frame equivalent focal length). If I could have only one lens, I would pick something in that range. Because of it’s versatility.

Canon makes some high quality lenses. I suggest you consider a “good glass” Canon lens in that ballpark focal range, faster is better of course look for something f2.8 or faster. I believe you will get a lot of mileage from it.

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Jun 30, 2022 20:53:24   #
Craig Meyer Loc: Sparks, NV
 
KindaSpikey wrote:
Thanks for the comment gh. Some good advice there, that I'll definitely keep in mind! I realize that there's no true "do it all lens", but a general walk around lens is exactly what I'm hoping for, so, thanks again, and have a great day.
Ray.


I agree with the feedback you have gotten so far. The 55-250 lens is probably on the lower end of the lenses Canon have on offer. The 18-55 is the basic kit lens for almost all their entry level camera, so hey make a lot of them and can price them low because of the manufacturing volume savings. By the way, it is difficult to tell the difference between the specs of the T7i and the 77D which I use, and the 80D, which is well regarded by even some pros as a back up camera. The light weight is a real advantage. All that said, the difference between the "Better" lenses and the Kit lenses are largely physical mostly plastic components vs metal for the extra $$. The optics don't get seriously superior until you get into the "L" lenses. They're expensive, and for the time where you are more comfortable with your results, have developed the requisite skills to deliver sharp, well exposed, properly focused photos 90%= of the time. Maybe you missed the smile, or the moment, or mis-composed and got a tree growing from Misuse's head. But the shot was sharp, and exposed and in focused.

Another note on lenses. Even the most basic 2022 lenses are MILES better than those available to the best photographers 2 generations ago--excepting the Leica and Zeiss lenses. Keep in mind, ALL lenses have their sweet spot for aperture--the lens opening that reads like f3.5, f4, f5.6, f8, f11 etc. Most of the lower cost lenses resolve their images when "stopped down" meaning an aperture smaller (bigger number--like wire gauge and shotgun shot) openings. I suggest you checking that out by shooting with you 18-55mm, the same still subject with some detail, like a wrought iron door or fence or gate or chair. Use good light coming from 45 degrees behind you (over your shoulder).

At a distance of 10 to 15 feet from the subject, If you have a tripod, set the camera on it, focus the subject with the focus points (Use Center weighted metering and the center focus point on an actual detail of the subject. Switch the camera to AV mode, and use ISO of 100. Turn Image stabilization off if on the tripod--don't forget to turn it back on when this game is over.

For the experiment. Take one exposure at apertures from f4, f5.6, f8, and f11. (A detailed description on how to do this is in the manual where they discuss Creative modes.")

What have we done here? We've eliminated camera movement, if you have, or can borrow a tripod. If not find a solid, steady smooth surface table and place the camera on it. Set the 2 second timer to allow any nudge you might make while GENTLY pressing the shutter button. Second, the lens is carefully auto focused, and the lens aperture is "Stopped down." The best looking of these photos should reveal the best aperture for this kind of subject in this kind of light with the general camera to subject distance.

I suggest, with this lens, shoot at a focal length (zoom to) about 30-35 mm.

Look through the results on the camera screen, magnify each to see how sharp the subject edges are rendered in each photo. One in the range may stand out. Pretty much standardize on that f# using AV mode as you can. When you're hand holding this lens, while you're learning, NEVER let your shutter speed go under 1/125th sec. It's over conservative, but should assure you get a good sharp photo in good light.

Repeat this experiment at 25 feet and at 5 feet away from the subject. see if any differences show in your results.

Repeat this experiment, perhaps on another day, with the 55-250 lens zoomed at 75mm 150mm and 200 mm and 250 mm. Lotsa shots, but you'll have the hang if it. The reason is this lens, in some cases, has varying sharpness at the longest (250mm) focal length. SO, the Sweet Spot may vary based on your distance and focal length--another variable. You may want to do this in a park where you have more room to back off the subject.

You Tube is your friend. Search for "Tutorial, making sharp photos with basic DSLR." Pick the person who suits you--there will be 100. Dedicate an hour or so a few days a week and you'll be in expert territory within a month. You'll be in the territory and to achieve expert status, you'll have to shot and shoot some more. BTW: Download the You Tubes you like on your phone so you have them when doing the experiments, and otherwise on a photo outing.

If you can't decide if you have a sweet spot, keep the photos on the SD card and visit a shop who sells Canon--perhaps where you purchased it, go at a slow retail time and ask for help. Full Service shops, a dying breed, usually have a class like "getting the most out of your camera." There should be many clubs in your area, ask around at he shop is good.

Doing these exercises will go a long way toward getting more familiar with your camera. That green box on the dial is nice for a quickie, but it makes so many generalized assumptions on settings than may be the very cause of lousy photos. If your problem photos are composition mistakes, exercise your new YouTube search skills. The answers are there. And, www.canonusa.com has a bunch of tutorials for beginners that are very good. Also Canon Australia has a good YouTube series, and so does Canon Europe.

Good Luck,
C

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