Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Once more on Digital Photography
Page <<first <prev 7 of 8 next>
Jun 9, 2022 01:18:31   #
User ID
 
John Hicks wrote:
I still think Paul is wrong stating you cannot have a photograph unless it is finished in photoshop.
What about those who use lightroom, what about those you film as there medium. I think sometimes you comment for the sake of saying something which is unfortunate as you obviously have a lot of knowledge.

You are ignoring Pauls waaaaaay hugely valuable contribution which is to stick his thumb in the eye of stoopidity, examples being long pointless binary threads about PP, filters, SLRs, film, etc etc.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 02:28:52   #
User ID
 
Camera vision:
.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 08:13:17   #
ggttc Loc: TN
 
What it is, how it looks, what do I call it are personal decisions you have to make for yourself.
Stop looking for definitions, they will only kill your creativity, if creativity in your photography is your goal

Reply
 
 
Jun 9, 2022 09:02:05   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Life is like photography, it's easy until you start following all the rules explained on the internet.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 10:13:41   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Bridges wrote:
Not always just with photojournalism. Nature photographers professional and amateur alike adhere to a strict set of rules. I remember sitting in a meeting a few years ago when someone criticized one of the photos that were presented in competition for the night. It was a lovely, well-focused shot of a bird. The one bad part of the photo was the lack of a catch-light in the bird's eyes. It made the bird look dead or stuffed. One of the older and more experienced photographers said a highlight could easily be added in PP. There was a unified gasp as if someone had sucked all the air out of the room! That photographer was told in no uncertain terms by more than one of the club members that, that was totally unacceptable!
Not always just with photojournalism. Nature phot... (show quote)


Sorry - I keep forgetting about that other type of photography, which is photography for achievement. I can see why the rules would be so important in that genre. How else could they make such a display of their technical know-how and the sheer extent of their anal retentiveness (which is seen as a badge of merit within that group). I wouldn't be surprised if they all walk around with magnifying glasses in their pockets so that they can micro-inspect every image looking for the technical perfection that they hold in such high esteem.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 11:26:05   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
R.G. wrote:
Sorry - I keep forgetting about that other type of photography, which is photography for achievement. I can see why the rules would be so important in that genre. How else could they make such a display of their technical know-how and the sheer extent of their anal retentiveness (which is seen as a badge of merit within that group). I wouldn't be surprised if they all walk around with magnifying glasses in their pockets so that they can micro-inspect every image looking for the technical perfection that they hold in such high esteem.
Sorry - I keep forgetting about that i other /i ... (show quote)


I do not have any problem with an expectation of honesty in representation. I do not believe that taking a picture of someone's pet emu in their backyard and passing it off as a wild animal capture represents any sort of recognizable (or even unrecognizable) accomplishment. Images created and presented solely as artistic endeavor are a different matter, of course. And photographs submitted as evidence in a court proceeding or in support of research result claims certainly carry a requirement to represent the reality tht is claimed for them.

I had responsibility for environmental compliance and incident investigation for the final 10 years of my professional career, among other responsibilities. My relationship and credibility with those responsible for enforcement of regulations depended on our ability to trust that we were being honest in our communication with each other, including photographs submitted as evidence of problems and of corrective actions being taken. The string of folks that has passed through my former position since my retirement has never established that trust, and their relationship as well as the reputation of my former employer has not been the same since.

Similarly, results of investigations into serious behavioral or safety violations carried the possibility of penalties up to and including termination for the person under investigation. Photographic documentation was of key importance, since the reviews could pass through several steps. Clear, unaltered evidence was critical to insuring that these reviews were conducted fairly and without bias.

All of these considerations are why I have little patience with those who blithely dismiss the possibility that reality is no longer a requirement or even a consideration for photography. Because sometimes it is. And sometimes lives and well-being depend on it.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 11:51:02   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
larryepage wrote:
....All of these considerations are why I have little patience with those who blithely dismiss the possibility that reality is no longer a requirement or even a consideration for photography. Because sometimes it is. And sometimes lives and well-being depend on it.


The key word there is "sometimes". You've described situations where accuracy is essential rather than just a nice idea, but that just doesn't apply to most people in their everyday lives. What's inappropriate is applying the same thinking to all photography as if technical excellence was the ultimate differentiator between good photography and bad photography.

Obviously technical excellence has its place and it's a necessary requirement for some, but for the rest of us it would be a mistake to think that that's what photography is all about. The history of photography is awash with examples of photos that are technically flawed but are nevertheless seen as iconic, and will continue to be held in high regard. Ditto for photos that have been extensively manipulated.

Reply
 
 
Jun 9, 2022 14:29:51   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
R.G. wrote:
The key word there is "sometimes". You've described situations where accuracy is essential rather than just a nice idea, but that just doesn't apply to most people in their everyday lives. What's inappropriate is applying the same thinking to all photography as if technical excellence was the ultimate differentiator between good photography and bad photography.

Obviously technical excellence has its place and it's a necessary requirement for some, but for the rest of us it would be a mistake to think that that's what photography is all about. The history of photography is awash with examples of photos that are technically flawed but are nevertheless seen as iconic, and will continue to be held in high regard. Ditto for photos that have been extensively manipulated.
The key word there is "sometimes". You'... (show quote)


Methinks the question “what makes a photo worth looking at?” would a good theme for another thread. Lots of different answers to that.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 14:39:53   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
The term "photojournalism" encapsulates the practice of this fled of photography which requires words (a caption) in relation to a photograph to convey the news report.

A picture of a beautiful flower can stand alone solely in visual terms to justify itself.

Yes, a photographer may attach words to his photograph of a flower as a matter of identifying it for information apart yet from the visual sense.
R.G. wrote:
I was unaware of any strict definitions and would have said it depends purely on the content and the intended use of the photo. The use of captions IMO is purely a matter of choice regardless of what kind of photography is being pursued. It seems to me that photojournalistic photos can tell stories just the same as the more artistic type.

It seems to me that outside of the world of photojournalism most people are quite happy to inform the viewers that manipulative PP has been used and they will do so matter-of-factly because to them it's the quality of the result that matters.
I was unaware of any strict definitions and would ... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 14:56:42   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
JD750 wrote:
Methinks the question “what makes a photo worth looking at?” would a good theme for another thread. Lots of different answers to that.


Indeed. We should all ask ourselves that on a regular basis.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 14:58:20   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
anotherview wrote:
The term "photojournalism" encapsulates the practice of this fled of photography which requires words (a caption) in relation to a photograph to convey the news report...


OK. I think I was thinking in terms of what a journalistic photo is rather than what photojournalism is.

Reply
 
 
Jun 9, 2022 17:35:29   #
User ID
 
R.G. wrote:
Sorry - I keep forgetting about that other type of photography, which is photography for achievement. I can see why the rules would be so important in that genre. How else could they make such a display of their technical know-how and the sheer extent of their anal retentiveness (which is seen as a badge of merit within that group). I wouldn't be surprised if they all walk around with magnifying glasses in their pockets so that they can micro-inspect every image looking for the technical perfection that they hold in such high esteem.
Sorry - I keep forgetting about that i other /i ... (show quote)

Its a harmless useless pastime. Yes they are a world of losers but their game is hermetically sealed, doesnt trouble the rest of us who acoarst will add catch lights on an as-needed basis.

You dont play bridge ? Do bridge players intrude on your life ? Acoarst not.

One night the camera club game did intrude on my well being. Due to my job title, workplace diplomacy forced me into a night of bad pastry, bad coffee, and the worst genre of photography. IOW I hadda judge a club competition. It was like the UHH Gallery section had invaded the material world.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 19:57:50   #
franburst
 
I care what the camera saw! I take pictures of racing sailboats and the action is fast. My camera and I are partners. I take aim and then depend on the camera's technology. My pictures are used to make 50 picture slide shows that are shown during the social events that take place after the racing. I use Lightroom to select the pictures and then for the pp which is minimal. The sailors love seeing pictures of their boats in action.

Reply
Jun 9, 2022 21:34:49   #
frangeo Loc: Texas
 
Bridges wrote:
I posted a few days ago asking whether you felt digital photography was a plus or minus to the genre of photography. A lot of people were not on the same page as me. They felt the post was about technology vs. traditional photo techniques. It was not. It was about where is the line between photography and illustration.
At what point does a photograph cease to be a photograph and become a different form of art. I'm not saying one is better than the other but I think we need to view photographs and highly manipulated photographs as two different genres.

Of all the responses I think gwilliams6's response was the most point-on (being a university professor of photography perhaps explains why). Here is what he wrote:

I started my photography journey in the 1960s and have used every iteration of the craft as an amateur and as a longtime professional photojournalist and Professor of Photography at a state University.

You can't stop the progression of technology and innovation in photography and in photo processing. But I do believe it is important to know what constitutes art and what is reality in photography.

As I teach my University Art Department photo students, anything and everything goes in art. But I also teach my University Photojournalism students that ethically there is a limit to what can be done in processing and still retain the truth which is to be preserved. That line should NOT be crossed in Photojournalism. But sadly many do.

With so many special effects and CGI in our imagery every day, it is getting harder and harder to know what is real and what isn't.

Yes, I have done layered photos, but then I call them photo illustrations and don't pass them off as reality. I would rather have the experience, adventure, hard work, and yes, some luck to find and capture a real sky than use any sky replacement.

Four examples: first a shot that is a combination of two of my photos to illustrate and advertise the X-Games in Philadelphia, Pa. This is a photo illustration pure and simple, art but not reality.

Second, a real sky found out on a walk along the marina at Disney's Hilton Head Resort, South Carolina. No sky replacement, Nature provided the colors.

Third, a real sunrise over the famed Monument Valley, a scene of countless movies, TV shows, commercials, Navajo lands, Arizona/Utah border. A real sky

Fourth, an actual time exposure, a single frame taken while driving down a New Jersey road at night. Not CGI or special effects. The adventure of imagining this shot, and then making this real shot with the camera set up inside the car was more enjoyable than if I had faked this shot in layers in PS.

To view the beautiful illustration photos he posted, go to the original post on this subject and look on pg.4.

Interestingly enough, I was looking through one of my photo books, "Techniques of the World's Greatest Photographers" and came across a photo by gustave le gray. The photo is a scene of a seascape. The history of the photo points out that the sea was from one negative and the dramatic sky was from another. This wasn't from recent past history, it was from the 1850s -- over 100 years ago! It also said his techniques caused a great sensation however it did not elaborate on whether the "sensation" was positive or negative! The book also told of nine of his prints being entered into a fine arts exhibit in Paris. A jury found the works worthy of displaying them along with lithographs but it was later overruled and the photographs dismissed as being products of science rather than art. Unfortunately, this narrow-minded attitude still exists. I approached a gallery in Bethlehem last year and inquired about hanging some work there. They informed me they do not accept photography!
I posted a few days ago asking whether you felt di... (show quote)


I'm sure the same argument happened before. "only oil paint on canvas is art, NOT photography." It will never end. Just shoot and be happy!!!

Reply
Jun 10, 2022 10:26:10   #
BartHx
 
This discussion goes on and on yet nobody seems to have addressed the central question of what "excessive manipulation" is. I would venture that is a decision for the individual photographer based on what his/her visualization of the image and/or need for the photograph is. A logical discussion of anything is not possible without first having a clear agreement on what the topic is.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 8 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.