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Aspect or crop ratio; how important is it to you?
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Jun 7, 2022 14:36:47   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Personally, I only use 'official' ratios. My images start at 3x2 from the camera. I may change the 16:10 that fits my own main computer monitor, or 16:9, when updating a landscape orientation. I'm more likely to retain 3:2 for portrait orientation, or 5x4. Although IG supports 5x4, I tend to crop to a 1:1 square for IG posts. If you don't use standard ratios, you can't control how your images might be viewed, nor how they'll find into frames when printed.

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Jun 7, 2022 14:51:47   #
User ID
 
bajadreamer wrote:
I usually try to stay with one of the "traditional" aspect ratios when I save my master copies of my processed images. Not sure why as I rarely print; most of my images are displayed either on a computer monitor or a dedicated TV I have at home in my den. Especially with the TV, unless the image is at 16:9, the image does not fill the screen. This shot of a Red Kite had to be cropped at a non traditional aspect ratio. I clipped the bird's right (viewer's left) wing and had to replace the wing tip. To do so I had to add canvas on the left side. Because of the pose and the wing span, I could not (at least not satisfactorily to me) get this to work in a 5:4 or 3:2 ratio. What are your thoughts? How important is the aspect ratio to you? I am thinking of having this printed on canvas as a "panorama type" scene.
I usually try to stay with one of the "tradit... (show quote)

If there were no distractions that needed to be cropped out, I would never have cropped the frame to match the subject. A subject needs an environment. If you seek to emphasise that a subject forms a narrow horizontal shape, try putting it somewhere within a square-ish field thaz barely wide enough for the subject but with plenty of room above and below.



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Jun 7, 2022 16:04:37   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
In my photography classes, I was taught to print the entire frame unless there was a compelling reason not to do so. The print was then trimmed to the desired dimensions appropriate to the content. The final step was to dry mount the free-size print to a rear mat which had been cut to the appropriate frame size. A top mat was preferred (but optional), and could fit tight (or even overlapping) to the print or could provide free space around it.

It was very rare that any of our prints corresponded to a standard size or aspect ratio. They were the size and shape that they needed to be for best effect. The process is different today, but I still do not presume that my finished prints will be any particular aspect ratio when complete.

The exception is those occasions where I am shooting with square format in mind. Those are generally handled as square from start to finish, using the original camera framing. Of course sometimes the original idea just doesn't work, but a change to a different format can save an image.

All of our club contest entries are required to be mounted, maximum mat size 16x24, as I recall. Anything that will fit, or smaller, is ok. The railroad convention I'm attending next week also requires mounted entries with a maximum mat size of 11x14. Anything that will fit on that is ok.

For me, the picture is the size that it needs to be. The mat and frame may be constrained if I'm not having a custom frame made.

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Jun 7, 2022 16:10:40   #
tgreenhaw
 
I recommend doing a small version on canvas for a test before buying a huge expensive print on canvas. I was disappointed with my photos on canvas as they look blurry to me.

You might consider a metal print on glossy white. I think your photo on that would be spectacular.

For a print, the aspect ratio doesn't need to be standard and composition can be king.

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Jun 7, 2022 17:28:24   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
In my work, conforming to specific aspect ratios can be important and in many cases, however, in other situations, I am not al all concerted with a pre-determined ratio.

Obviously, in many commercial layouts, images that will appear on television screens or transilluminated display cases and menus, billboards, feature stories or advertisements in magazines, etc, there may be a specified space that must be observed and all compositional elements for the get-go have to be planned accordingly. In the old days o retail portraiture, we shot for frames and albums of standard sizes. Seem the 4:3 ratio rules and the camera maker began to market "ideal format" cameras (6x7 and 6x4.6 cm) to address the 8x10 prints and larger formats of similar proportions.

I have done a lot of research and study as to where these "ideal" ratios came from- the old master's paintings, the theories of ancient mathematicians, the composition "rules thirds, and things lie in the "golden ratio"- all good to know in the back of your mind but really- enough to drive one crazy while shooting! Besides, there are so many other interesting formats, including panoramic, and even circular or oval compositions. Ain't nothing wrong with squares instead of rectangles.

So, back in the day when I was shooting tons of weddings on film, I went rogue! I broke tradition and went to a square format and went expensive as well-Hasselblad. Not for prestige either, It's just that his glass was super sharp, the film plane in the magazines was super flat and with a decent moderately speed colour negative material, a bit of cropping did not harm to the IQ- I made fine 24x30 and 3x40 prints from sections of 2 1/4 negatives. I made custom-bound multi-size albums and offered custom frames and matting of odd sizes.

I apply the same theory in my digital commercial photography and portraiture today. Of course, it's good to fill the frame as much as possible and still maintain good composition but there are so many alternatives that can be more interesting, such as negative space, the sorts of traditional and odd aspect ratios in the finished product.

After all, why invest in high-quality lenses and the latest cameras with high pixel counts if you can't leave a bit of space in certain compositions and crop accordingly as per your planned final composition or aspect ratio.

There are times when shooting action where you may not be able to fill a frame or precisely decide long a specific compositor or aspect ratio in a split second. You shoot and crop- you don't scrap the shot if you cant get in closer.

Here's a link to a nice article on aspect ratios and various compositional concepts.
https://phlearn.com/magazine/how-to-know-which-aspect-ratio-to-use-in-your-photography/

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Jun 7, 2022 17:43:59   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Personally, I only use 'official' ratios. My images start at 3x2 from the camera. I may change the 16:10 that fits my own main computer monitor, or 16:9, when updating a landscape orientation. I'm more likely to retain 3:2 for portrait orientation, or 5x4. Although IG supports 5x4, I tend to crop to a 1:1 square for IG posts. If you don't use standard ratios, you can't control how your images might be viewed, nor how they'll find into frames when printed.


I guess that has been my reasoning in the past staying with 3:2 or 5:4 type crops. I do not post on IG so that is a moot point. I have saved and often check with your post of long ago on resizing.

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Jun 7, 2022 17:49:57   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
User ID wrote:
If there were no distractions that needed to be cropped out, I would never have cropped the frame to match the subject. A subject needs an environment. If you seek to emphasise that a subject forms a narrow horizontal shape, try putting it somewhere within a square-ish field thaz barely wide enough for the subject but with plenty of room above and below.


In general I certainly agree with your thoughts. In this picture, that was impossible. I saw this bird coming some distance off and was able to acquire focus as he came toward me. He was flying fast and low; even though I was using a zoom, there was no way to adjust the zoom to compose. Unfortunately of the 28 shots in the burst, this is the one that had the best head and wing position. Bad news because the wing was clipped. I am attaching an unedited SOC shot. I had to add canvas to the L side in order to clone, reverse and place the L wing tip over to the right side. I then used the liquify tool to move that wing tip slightly to make it not a mirror image of the donor wing.


(Download)

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Jun 7, 2022 17:51:57   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
larryepage wrote:
In my photography classes, I was taught to print the entire frame unless there was a compelling reason not to do so. The print was then trimmed to the desired dimensions appropriate to the content. The final step was to dry mount the free-size print to a rear mat which had been cut to the appropriate frame size. A top mat was preferred (but optional), and could fit tight (or even overlapping) to the print or could provide free space around it.

It was very rare that any of our prints corresponded to a standard size or aspect ratio. They were the size and shape that they needed to be for best effect. The process is different today, but I still do not presume that my finished prints will be any particular aspect ratio when complete.

The exception is those occasions where I am shooting with square format in mind. Those are generally handled as square from start to finish, using the original camera framing. Of course sometimes the original idea just doesn't work, but a change to a different format can save an image.

All of our club contest entries are required to be mounted, maximum mat size 16x24, as I recall. Anything that will fit, or smaller, is ok. The railroad convention I'm attending next week also requires mounted entries with a maximum mat size of 11x14. Anything that will fit on that is ok.

For me, the picture is the size that it needs to be. The mat and frame may be constrained if I'm not having a custom frame made.
In my photography classes, I was taught to print t... (show quote)


Because I am shooting primarily birds, it is more difficult to fill the frame and so I have to make a decision with each shot as to how much background I want to include. Does it add or detract from the picture? With this shot, some unique (at least for me) circumstances intervened that precluded any pre shot consideration for aspect ratio.

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Jun 7, 2022 17:53:01   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
In my work, conforming to specific aspect ratios can be important and in many cases, however, in other situations, I am not al all concerted with a pre-determined ratio.

Obviously, in many commercial layouts, images that will appear on television screens or transilluminated display cases and menus, billboards, feature stories or advertisements in magazines, etc, there may be a specified space that must be observed and all compositional elements for the get-go have to be planned accordingly. In the old days o retail portraiture, we shot for frames and albums of standard sizes. Seem the 4:3 ratio rules and the camera maker began to market "ideal format" cameras (6x7 and 6x4.6 cm) to address the 8x10 prints and larger formats of similar proportions.

I have done a lot of research and study as to where these "ideal" ratios came from- the old master's paintings, the theories of ancient mathematicians, the composition "rules thirds, and things lie in the "golden ratio"- all good to know in the back of your mind but really- enough to drive one crazy while shooting! Besides, there are so many other interesting formats, including panoramic, and even circular or oval compositions. Ain't nothing wrong with squares instead of rectangles.

So, back in the day when I was shooting tons of weddings on film, I went rogue! I broke tradition and went to a square format and went expensive as well-Hasselblad. Not for prestige either, It's just that his glass was super sharp, the film plane in the magazines was super flat and with a decent moderately speed colour negative material, a bit of cropping did not harm to the IQ- I made fine 24x30 and 3x40 prints from sections of 2 1/4 negatives. I made custom-bound multi-size albums and offered custom frames and matting of odd sizes.

I apply the same theory in my digital commercial photography and portraiture today. Of course, it's good to fill the frame as much as possible and still maintain good composition but there are so many alternatives that can be more interesting, such as negative space, the sorts of traditional and odd aspect ratios in the finished product.

After all, why invest in high-quality lenses and the latest cameras with high pixel counts if you can't leave a bit of space in certain compositions and crop accordingly as per your planned final composition or aspect ratio.

There are times when shooting action where you may not be able to fill a frame or precisely decide long a specific compositor or aspect ratio in a split second. You shoot and crop- you don't scrap the shot if you cant get in closer.

Here's a link to a nice article on aspect ratios and various compositional concepts.
https://phlearn.com/magazine/how-to-know-which-aspect-ratio-to-use-in-your-photography/
In my work, conforming to specific aspect ratios c... (show quote)


Thank you for the link. With the advent of the newer "eye tracking" cameras, pre shot composition is easier but still a challenge for me.

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Jun 7, 2022 18:00:13   #
Alphabravo2020
 
I crop and rotate and pan until a gland in my brain fires. This can lead to some unfortunate cropping in IG so I had to learn how to add mats.

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Jun 7, 2022 18:00:39   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
bajadreamer wrote:
I usually try to stay with one of the "traditional" aspect ratios when I save my master copies of my processed images. Not sure why as I rarely print; most of my images are displayed either on a computer monitor or a dedicated TV I have at home in my den. Especially with the TV, unless the image is at 16:9, the image does not fill the screen. This shot of a Red Kite had to be cropped at a non traditional aspect ratio. I clipped the bird's right (viewer's left) wing and had to replace the wing tip. To do so I had to add canvas on the left side. Because of the pose and the wing span, I could not (at least not satisfactorily to me) get this to work in a 5:4 or 3:2 ratio. What are your thoughts? How important is the aspect ratio to you? I am thinking of having this printed on canvas as a "panorama type" scene.
I usually try to stay with one of the "tradit... (show quote)


I never ever think about it.

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Jun 7, 2022 18:04:05   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
Alphabravo2020 wrote:
I crop and rotate and pan until a gland in my brain fires. This can lead to some unfortunate cropping in IG so I had to learn how to add mats.


Why I save layered TIFF files in PS as my masters. What looked good to me initially I sometimes look at later and think WTF was I thinking. Cropping and saturation are my two bugaboos.

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Jun 7, 2022 18:04:06   #
Alphabravo2020
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I never ever think about it.


I agree. Nowadays the image can always be recomposed for a particular customer. With a shot like OP's the aspect ratio should serve the shot. If it is printed and framed it will need a custom frame anyway.

Edit: A shot like this would look great as a mural. A long non-typical aspect ratio would be very impressive over an executives desk or in a board room.

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Jun 7, 2022 18:07:03   #
bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur
 
User ID wrote:
If there were no distractions that needed to be cropped out, I would never have cropped the frame to match the subject. A subject needs an environment. If you seek to emphasise that a subject forms a narrow horizontal shape, try putting it somewhere within a square-ish field thaz barely wide enough for the subject but with plenty of room above and below.


I am attaching a second shot. This was taken a few seconds after the first. I had a chance to zoom back in and capture virtually a full frame shot. This shot has a slight crop from the L and bottom. It is a traditional 5:4.



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Jun 7, 2022 18:10:18   #
Alphabravo2020
 
bajadreamer wrote:
I am attaching a second shot. This was taken a few seconds after the first. I had a chance to zoom back in and capture virtually a full frame shot. This shot has a slight crop from the L and bottom. It is a traditional 5:4.


Great capture. I would crop out the bird on the ground and put the raptor on the 1/3 line.

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