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Sony a 7 IV VS RAW DOWNLOAD
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Jun 1, 2022 18:11:47   #
chris in nz Loc: New Zealand
 
JohnR wrote:
Hi Chris - your are indeed entitled to your opinion! Sadly though I think it's one which is not provable.

I have, many times after reading UHH posts on the subject, tried to prove this theory that RAW is better for editing than JPGs. I do set my cameras to give good exposures though and then see little difference on the screen between the 2 files when first downloaded. Anyway I haven't been able to show that RAW is better than JPG for editing in any way. Most of the times there's been little need to edit the RAW at all apart from a little sharpening. I have found however that the RAW files from small sensor cameras are more much editable than their JPG's. Obviously Dynamic range is involved here. APS-C and Full Frame cameras I find there's little difference between the 2 files when displayed on my Retina iMac.

I could, as many have, post examples supposedly showing how much better a RAW file edit is than a JPG edit but there is no way I could prove that's really what I did - I can only show you JPGs anyway and there's no way to record the edits that I made which would prove the theory. Not suggesting anyone would tell porkies about what they'd done but we all know how the Media in particular can "massage" the facts to give an entirely different slant to a story. It is entirely possible to "lie" by omission. Still life must go on - all the way until it ends! Cheers JohnR
Hi Chris - your are indeed entitled to your opinio... (show quote)


As shot, RAW and JPG should look identical. It's only when you try to pull out shadow detail or recover blown highlights that you see the difference. JPGs just don't contain the data, it's as simple as that. I have attached an example, something I had on hand that I had captured in JPG and RAW - the JPG file has a blown out sky and it unrecoverable. In the JPG reducing exposure just makes it darker but in the RAW it brings out a blue sky and clouds. This was shot on an iPhone by the way, nothing fancy. I won't ever shoot JPG if I can help it because of this.



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Jun 1, 2022 20:32:14   #
gwilliams6
 
A big mistake to use any micro SD card in a high-end fullframe camera. They aren't as sold state or fast reading, you can suffer lag in writing to and reading from them. And the micro sd cards are NOT built to handle the heat generated when pushing that much data through them with that 33mp sensor and their sleeves are NOT built to handle that constant use. You have more failures and possible loss of data awaiting you.

Read up: https://bulkmemorycards.com/why-you-shouldnt-use-microsd-cards-in-dslr-or-mirrorless-cameras/.

You are NOT saving anything really by not using fullsize SD cards, either UHS-II V90 or UHS-I with fast reading properties . You will surely have more failures if you continue to use that micro SD card. Don't be "penny-wise but pound foolish" with your A7IV and your images.

FYI, I have been a pro for over four decades and after moving from Canon and Nikon to Sony, I have owned Sony A6500, A7RII, A7RIII, A7III, A9, and currently own A7RIV, A1, A7SIII.

Cheers


(Download)

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Jun 1, 2022 22:59:45   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
chris in nz wrote:
As shot, RAW and JPG should look identical. It's only when you try to pull out shadow detail or recover blown highlights that you see the difference. JPGs just don't contain the data, it's as simple as that. I have attached an example, something I had on hand that I had captured in JPG and RAW - the JPG file has a blown out sky and it unrecoverable. In the JPG reducing exposure just makes it darker but in the RAW it brings out a blue sky and clouds. This was shot on an iPhone by the way, nothing fancy. I won't ever shoot JPG if I can help it because of this.
As shot, RAW and JPG should look identical. It's o... (show quote)


Hi Chris again. Well I was prompted by all this to do repeat tests to check out this idea! I took RAW+JPG shots showing a bright skyline with some clouds and shadowed foregrounds. I shot at 0EV and +0.7EV. left the 0EV shots alone and edited the 0.7EV shots to bring out shadow detail and to reduce the blown highlights. Cameras used were 1. Olympus OM-D E-M1 MkII, 2. Nikon D5500, 3. Sony A7ii. All shots at 28mm in 35mm equivalent except for the Sony which of course was 28mm anyway. I achieved some very interesting results - both Olympus and Nikon showed markedly greater ability to bring out details from the RAW files rather than the JPGs - just what everyone says happens. The Sony A7ii however showed hardly any difference between RAW and JPG edits why I don't know - maybe something to do with the way Sony create the RAW files and compress the JPGs?? Also the Sony A7ii shots were noticeably better than the Olympus and Nikon shots both for colour and IQ. I won't post examples as I have limited data with my mobile broadband and also to send RAW files I have to convert them to JPG and compress them quite heavily and that destroys the additional data I had in the RAW file. No worries - keep banging away as long as life continues - have a bit of a rest towards the end is a good idea I think Cheers JohnR

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Jun 1, 2022 23:29:47   #
chris in nz Loc: New Zealand
 
Your Sony may have some form of dynamic range optimiser enabled which will tend to improve how much dynamic range the JPG can capture, but if it's anything like the Nikon version it may have drawbacks in terms of how automated it is, and whether you have control over the parameters. I know with the Nikon one it messes with the RAW file when you turn that feature on hence I leave it off, but I know nothing about any Sony DRO feature.

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Jun 1, 2022 23:35:08   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
JohnR wrote:
Hi Chris - your are indeed entitled to your opinion! Sadly though I think it's one which is not provable.

I have, many times after reading UHH posts on the subject, tried to prove this theory that RAW is better for editing than JPGs. I do set my cameras to give good exposures though and then see little difference on the screen between the 2 files when first downloaded. Anyway I haven't been able to show that RAW is better than JPG for editing in any way. Most of the times there's been little need to edit the RAW at all apart from a little sharpening. I have found however that the RAW files from small sensor cameras are more much editable than their JPG's. Obviously Dynamic range is involved here. APS-C and Full Frame cameras I find there's little difference between the 2 files when displayed on my Retina iMac.

I could, as many have, post examples supposedly showing how much better a RAW file edit is than a JPG edit but there is no way I could prove that's really what I did - I can only show you JPGs anyway and there's no way to record the edits that I made which would prove the theory. Not suggesting anyone would tell porkies about what they'd done but we all know how the Media in particular can "massage" the facts to give an entirely different slant to a story. It is entirely possible to "lie" by omission. Still life must go on - all the way until it ends! Cheers JohnR
Hi Chris - your are indeed entitled to your opinio... (show quote)


I’m not saying this to be mean, but I just looked at several of your photo gallery posts and they do not bear out your opinion about JPEG vs raw. Your exposures are all over the place, although the overall trend is underexposed. They also tend to be pretty flat with very little if any shadow detail. I even saw a few with completely blown skies and still no shadow detail. I will agree that if this is what you’re going for then your JPEG’s are sufficient.

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Jun 2, 2022 00:24:42   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I’m not saying this to be mean, but I just looked at several of your photo gallery posts and they do not bear out your opinion about JPEG vs raw. Your exposures are all over the place, although the overall trend is underexposed. They also tend to be pretty flat with very little if any shadow detail. I even saw a few with completely blown skies and still no shadow detail. I will agree that if this is what you’re going for then your JPEG’s are sufficient.


You're so kind and helpful with your completely unnecessary criticism that you've managed to be really mean whether you meant that or not. Thanks for nothing buddy I won't be posting anymore so I won't upset your sensitive nature.

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Jun 2, 2022 00:30:26   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
JohnR wrote:
You're so kind and helpful with your completely unnecessary criticism that you've managed to be really mean whether you meant that or not. Thanks for nothing buddy I won't be posting anymore so I won't upset your sensitive nature.
You're so kind and helpful with your completely un... (show quote)


Post away. I rarely look at the gallery.

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Jun 2, 2022 00:37:18   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Post away. I rarely look at the gallery.


So why did you look at my posts? Goodbye - don't bother answering as I'm opting out and won't read anything from you.

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Jun 3, 2022 13:26:20   #
photogeneralist Loc: Lopez Island Washington State
 
JohnR wrote:
So why did you look at my posts? Goodbye - don't bother answering as I'm opting out and won't read anything from you.


As the OP I am struck by how the subject morphed from how to download Sony A7 IV raw images into Apple's Photos to a rather heated discussion of the relative merits of Jpeg vis.Raw. That is not the question I asked.

To those who did restrict their response to the question I originally asked. Thank you !

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