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May 2, 2022 13:03:00   #
BigOldArt Loc: Seminole, FL
 
Ollieboy wrote:
Since Covid is over . . . .🤔


Sure wish that were true

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May 2, 2022 13:29:09   #
elee950021 Loc: New York, NY
 
repsychler wrote:
I am in the process of setting up a darkroom for developing and printing B&W film. I am writing to see if anyone has any words of wisdom or helpful experience that they would like to share.
I am currently concerned about the importance (or lack thereof) of adequate ventilation and/ or maintaining the temperature and/or humidity of the darkroom, especially when it is not in use.


I owned and was a working manager in a custom photo lab where we performed the usual b&w and color services: B&W, C-41, E-6 film processing and contact sheets, enlarged contact sheets, custom printing in both b&w and C & R prints, copy and conversion negatives as well as duplicate slides and transparencies, multiple printing for actors, models and other publicity purposes as well as studio services for artists. We also did digital services and print restorations. We were located in NYC's "Photo District," a stretch of Fifth Avenue from 14th to 23rd Streets (Flatiron Building). In 2008, as the area was gentrifying into co-op, condo apartments and lofts, my wife and I sold our 5000 SF space and retired.

Here are some tips:

If you can maintain room temperature (68 degrees) or any close temperature that is confortable for you then you'll be OK. If your local climate is warm, AC or perhaps doing darkroom activities at night might be preferable. It's the film developer temperature that is critical while the other solutions: stop, fix, water rinse, washing aid (to save water and do a more thorough washing) and the final wash can vary. Get yourself a photographic stain steel dial thermometer to monitor your solutions (from about 40 to 110 degrees marked in Fahrenheit and Centigrade) for both b&w and color processing and perhaps a second one as a backup. The final wash and other solutions can vary a few degrees without harm. You want consistency and to avoid using solutions that range too much from cool to warm and back to avoid film reticulation (coarse grain).

Assuming you're using plastic or stainless steel reels and tanks, I always started film processing with a 2-minute water bath which allows even immersion and coating of the film by the developer. Depending on your volume of film processing, a dilutable liquid film developer is quite convenient but more expensive. It's also less time-consuming than mixing it yourself from prepackaged powders (you must use 120 degree water to mix and then cool down the solution to a useable 68 degrees). Don't forget to "gently agitate" the tank at regular intervals to evenly develop the film.

For stop bath, instead of acetic acid, we used food-grade Citric acid to eliminate the vinegary smell. Or you can use plain water and agitate the film tank to remove all or most of the developer and prepare the film for the fixer. Again, I recommend a liquid Rapid Fixer to remove the undeveloped silver salts. Be sure to follow instructions to avoid under-fixing film (appears milky in the margins). Rinse with water and use a hypo clearing solution which also comes in liquid and powder form. Final wash and 30-second immersion in Photo-Flo or other wetting agents to minimize water spots. Hang in a dust-free area.

Things are not much different with printing. Use a print developer such as Dektol in the proper dilution, again all
the solutions at the same temperature. It's not super critical as long as you maintain a consistent developing length of time. I always used a 2-minute developing time, drain the print for 10 seconds and into the stop bath for
another 10 seconds. drain again and finally into the fixer, all the while rocking the trays which allow the solutions to evenly coat the printing paper. Follow proper times and avoid stacking too many prints in the tray. Shuffle the prints in the fixer to avoid the emulsion touching each other. If you are doing quantity printing, 2 trays of fixing baths are recommended. I would also suggest using tongs to handle prints and to minimize chemicals on hands.
A hardcore darkroom printer always has brown fingernails!

We did ventilate our darkrooms and also used small fans to blow potential fumes away from the enlarging area. We also drained and washed our trays to avoid chemical odors and wiped down the surfaces, generally, just good housekeeping.

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May 2, 2022 13:40:06   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
While temperature control is important, it's not nearly as critical with B&W film and prints as it is with color.

Several have mentioned, and I agree, dust can be a problem. Ventilation intake needs to be filtered.

You also might consider buying or building a film drying cabinet. It is during the drying process that the film is most at risk from dust.

Lots of good advice from other responses here. There is something especially satisfying about working in a darkroom to develop your own B&W negs and make prints from them! I honestly don't know if I'll ever have a darkroom again, but I have my enlargers and most of the other gear needed in storage... I simply can't bring myself to sell them for what little they bring these days! At one point I was doing both B&W and even some color work with 35mm, medium and large format film.

If you are considering combining analog and digital for a hybrid workflow, by all means read Bill's PDF about the process...

HOWEVER, if the end goal with B&W is digital, there are two possible approaches...

1. Using your traditional darkroom develop the film and then make a good-sized, quality print. That print can then be scanned on a good flat bed scanner to make a very usable digital file.

2. Shoot chromogenic B&W film and use a film scanner (or the neg carrier of a flat bed) to make a digital file from the negatives. This DOES NOT require a darkroom because the film is C41 processed, which is beyond the capabilities of most home darkrooms. In case you don't know, C41 is the process used for most color print film... It's the old, familiar "One Hour" processing.

If planning to make the digital files with a dedicated film scanner (or the neg carrier of a flat bed), traditional silver based films DO NOT scan well. This is because the image on the film is formed by tiny silver halide crystals or "grains" that block some of the light from passing through the film. A completely white area in a final image is produced by lots of those silver grains clumping together to completely block light passing through, while a completely black area in the final positive image is produced from an area in the negative where no silver halide grains developed. All the tonalities in between are created by more or less silver halide crystals forming during film development (incidentally, the B&W silver halide print is made the same way... but that's another story).

The problem scanning this type of film is that those little silver halide grains completely block light when present or allow it to pass when not present. Trying to digitize this directly from the neg makes for a very high contrast digital image with little to no mid-tones. The higher the ISO of the film, the greater this problem because the size of the silver grains are larger. After all, higher ISO images are often referred to as "grainy". Graininess also can be effected by the development process.

Chromogenic B&W film, on the other hand, makes negatives with monochromatic dyes. This is how color neg film and most color transparencies (slides) work, too. The dyes modulate the amount of light passing through the film much better than silver halide crystals do. Chromogenic film is for all practical purposes "grainless". It just has more or less dye controlling how much light can pass through. One of the complaints about C41 film is that it makes low contrast prints. However it is EXCELLENT for scanning into a digital file.

So if digital is going to be part of your workflow, by using chromogenic C41-processed B&W film you may not need a darkroom at all! With that type of film you will be sending it out for processing. There may be others, but Ilford XP2 is the chromogenic B&W film I'm most familiar with and have used in the past. There may be some others I'm unaware of.

Note: There is a third type of B&W film... orhtochromatic or "ortho". I haven't use it, so haven't experimented digitizing it with my film scanner. I know it uses traditional B&W chemistry to process and is fine grained. But if I recall correctly, it is rather low ISO... something like ISO 40 or 80. Ilford XP2, on the other hand, is a more versatile ISO 400 film.

Or, if you really want to develop your own B&W film, yet still plan to eventually work the images digitally, for best results first make as large a B&W print as possible and then use a flat bed scanner to produce the digital file from that.

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May 2, 2022 13:49:21   #
idrabefi Loc: Michigan
 
Something to consider -

It's been a few years, but I had a basement darkroom with Beseler 23C, condenser and diffuser heads, color analyzer, the works. I can go overboard sometimes getting technical. I bought and developed bulk film (tri-x was favorite), and did B&W and color from slides (I think it was Cibachromes) prints up to 11x14. Everything worked great and I spent a bunch of time enjoying - even won some local contests.

The one thing I remember that was difficult to control was water temperature - especially during warm seasons. Winters were fine. Summers were a challenge with tap water being too warm. Check the chemicals you plan to use regarding suggested temps.

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May 2, 2022 14:26:15   #
profbowman Loc: Harrisonburg, VA, USA
 
I built my darkroom in the summer of 1969 but used one off and on for several years on either side of that time. If you are using any of the traditional developers, then you do need to be concerned about temperature.

The standard temperature used by many sites to give the time for developing is 20 deg C/68 deg F. However, with just a bit of googling one can find technical data sheets for developers and films you are using showing how the times shorten as the tempera;ture rises... Here is one for Kodak films and developers from Kodak Alaris itself.
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/files/product-categories/edbwf_042418.pdf

Here is the main Kodak Alaris site.
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/
click on the tab link for photographers and then on b&w film.

Note that as the temperature goes up with the traditional developers and films, at least, the grain also goes up while the time in the developer goes down. So, you might want to think about leaving your a-c on all the time or turning it on a day ahead of when you use the darkroom or maybe a small refrigerator set fairly warm might be useful. --Richard

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May 2, 2022 15:22:21   #
fhayes Loc: Madison, Tennessee
 
Installed an air exchanger in my darkroom, the cost to run it constantly is minimal. It’s set at 68 degrees. It has a built in humidifier as well! It takes up about a 2x2 section of floorMy darkroom is roughly 10x 10 and it gives more than adequate ventilation.

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May 2, 2022 16:11:40   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
My advice is to not build it so well and strong that it's hard to dismantle once you decide it's not worth the time and expense. I've got sinks, an enlarger, film and print washers, trays, developing hardware, trays up to 16x20, print drying racks, light table, timers, unsharp masking equipment, exhaust fan, etc, etc, for 35mm to 4x5 and I can't give it away so far.

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May 2, 2022 16:25:16   #
LP9
 
Definitely figure out some ventilation. All the chemicals, especially fixer and stop bath, put off strong odors. I built a darkroom that I designed and I had a LARGE and deep sink that made washing easier. It was a great place for developer, wash and fixer trays up to 16x20 inches. A good source of water and 2 sinks, one large and a "standard" kitchen sink worked great.
I also had plenty of good power with multiple outlets. I used a window AC unit and had a vent fan that was specifically built for darkrooms that I could use if the odors got too concentrated.
Good luck with your project and have fun!

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May 2, 2022 16:33:30   #
classic320
 
I miss chemical printing! I've still have several enlargers--Bessler and a Focal (good to 4x5 negative)--as well as some accessories. Let me know if you need anything and its yours!

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May 2, 2022 17:14:22   #
bebop22 Loc: New York City
 
Good to hear someone is using the canon pro 100. Isn't she NICE.

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May 2, 2022 17:20:19   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
Actually, vinegar is about 4-6% acetic acid in water, with some trace elements. Stop bath is usually about 2% acetic acid. Maybe you were just ending up with a more dilute acetic acid stop bath by adding vinegar to water.


Totally correct reply! What could cause someone problems is undiluted stop bath solution or plain pure undiluted aceticc acid. Both can burn your skin. One can use white distilled vinegar in a pinch but that would likely cost more than stop as a photo chemical.

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May 2, 2022 17:22:49   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
delder wrote:
Having done my last B & W Darkroom work at the end of the last Century, I am not familiar with any modern chemicals that may be in use. In my experience, the fumes from the Acid Solutions tend to be corrosive, and if not properly ventilated, will cause most metals to rust and or corrode.

As Memory serves me, this ENTIRE PROCESS is Temperature Sensitive, which means your solutions must be kept at temperature or be brought to temperature BEFORE processing or you run the risk of over/under developing your work.

Good Luck!
Having done my last B & W Darkroom work at the... (show quote)


Traditional B&W chemistry is not all that bad. C41-like chemistry is dangerous.

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May 2, 2022 18:31:21   #
WIHorseman
 
I had a darkroom for 20 years in my last house. It may sound strange but I’m left handed and my wife is right handed. Without even thinking about it I setup the room so the enlarger I favored was along the left wall when you entered the room. My sink was located a couple of feet to the right & 90 degrees rotation along the adjacent wall. I got a stainless 6 inch deep oversized sink from a used food processing equipment dealer at a bargain price. It was long enough that I could fit Qty-6 11x17 trays side by side with room in between to lift and gently rock the trays. I would setup the trays so the sequence moved from left to right and as it turn out that was perfect for me but my wife being right handed hated the direction. For some reason each of us preferred to use the tongs to lift pints out of the trays with are dominant hands and hold them to drain excess liquid before dropping them in the next tray. I also used a pressure differential temperature controlled mixing valve that was extremely helpful in avoiding sudden temp swings when someone flushes a toilet or runs water elsewhere in the house. I had a second enlarger Rose preferred setup on the wall opposite the one I used and when Rose was working on her own she would reverse the order of the trays in the sink and sequence from right to left. I’d suggest a sturdy 6 to 8 inch wide shelf maybe a foot above and behind the sink. It is a good place to keep glassware, thermometers and tongs. Hang a string over the sink to hang tongs and print to dry. I purchased kitchen cabinets for the enlargers to rest on with spare drawers and larger shelf’s to store a but load of gear like focusing aids, frames. Make sure you have at least one red light over the sink the will not be shaded by you head and shoulders. If you can’t tell I loved my darkroom and its the one thing I miss since moving. I still have a fair amount of great laying around here I’ll never give up. Why I keep it I don’t know but its just one of those things I will never understand.

Have fun your embarking on a great hobby.

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May 2, 2022 21:34:59   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
larryepage wrote:
I would not paint the entire room black. There may come a time when having visual reference will be a big component of your equilibrium system. The darkroom i used when taking my photography classes had medium-light gray walls and even light sinks under the chemical trays. Of course, some of your choices may be limited by your choice of paper. We were using variable-contrast fiber paper, which allowed pretty generous safelights. Our enlarger stations had flat black partitions on three sides, and our bodies protected the third side. We also had dark chemical trays.

Download, read, and understand the Safety Data Sheets for the chemicals you plan to use. The biggest hazard with most print developing chemicals nowadays is the pH...the alkalinity or acidity. Ventilation won't help with that, but gloves will.

In general, the chemical of most concern is selenium toner. The risk is heavy metal poisoning, and it can enter the body through any route, especially the skin and respiratory system. Fixer is probably next on the list.

Tank developing film should be easy to manage with an exhaust hood over your sink and adjacent counter. I always loaded my film in a changing bag and didn't worry about room light. I never worked with bulk film, so you may need a station with switches to darken the room completely if the changing bag won't support that step of the process.
I would not paint the entire room black. There may... (show quote)


Munsell N8 paint is recommended for both black-and-white and color darkroom surfaces and color correction areas.

A changing bag is suitable for loading bulk loaders with 100’ rolls. It also works with small film tanks up to a quart (4-35mm or 2-120 size reels).

Toning is best done in software, with output to a high-end Canon or Epson printer using six or more inks.

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May 3, 2022 03:21:58   #
ecurb Loc: Metro Chicago Area
 
rmalarz wrote:
You're on the right track with temperature/humidity control. Fujitsu makes some very nice room air conditioning units. That should provide adequate ventilation along with air conditioning. Additionally, allow more space than you think you'll need. Set up your darkroom to have a wet side and a dry side. That will keep things from getting messy.
--Bob


Allow as much or more space outside the darkroom as dry workroom/production area for sorting, filing, mounting and framing prints. If you plan on mounting prints, look into a dry mount press, I still miss mine.

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