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Is RAW really worth it?
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Apr 26, 2022 06:01:57   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
anotherview wrote:
The full Photoshop offers a tool know as "Camera Shake Reduction." It removes image blur at the pixel level. Nobody mentions this tool.

Between it and the High Pass Filter, one can bring more potential out of a photograph. Caution: The HPF offers a lot of power. Use it in moderation depending on your eye.


I use third party Sharpen and NR tools, which I find much better than what Adobe has to offer.

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Apr 26, 2022 09:55:29   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Thanks for your experienced view and technical insights. Novices may have a ways go before they can apply your informed opinion. I suggest they copy and save your comment for later use.
burkphoto wrote:
Yes, many comments will ensue.

I have two distinct workflows. I use JPEGs on my iPhone. When I do serious work with my Lumix, I'll use raw for my personal work, and raw for professional work in events where there is variable lighting, or in high dynamic range situations. I use JPEG for certain kinds of paid work where I can control the lighting and the contrast ratio.

JPEG was conceived as a DISTRIBUTION format. It applies lossy compression. The camera is taking a 12, 14, or 16 bits per color channel file and processing it to an 8 bits per color channel file, then it compresses it heavily. So it throws away lots of data from the sensor... first when downsampling it to 8 bits per color channel, then when saving the file. That is why it isn't particularly well-suited to post processing.

Raw files contain all the digitized but otherwise unprocessed data from the sensor. So the entire dynamic range is there.

Photo papers generally reflect only a 5 to 5.5 stop range of brightness under normal room lighting. But your camera can record 12 to 15 stops of brightness range in a raw file! If the scene brightness exceeds 5.5 stops, the camera is going to clip some of that range in the highlights, or the shadows, or both. So if you save the raw file, you can recover some of the highlights and shadows and compress them into a 5.5 stop range that will fit on photo paper.

That can be important when using the camera in bright daylight with no clouds in the sky. It can be important for macro copying film negatives. It can be important when doing event work such as weddings, where black tuxedos and white wedding gowns need to show texture in the fabrics.

If you want great results from JPEGs (meaning accurate color and detail in highlights and shadows), you have to nail the exposure. You have to set an accurate white balance at the camera, and you have to avoid the need for heavy post-processing. If you are working with studio lighting, you can control the ratio of brightness from highlights to shadows. You can control shadow edge acuteness. You can control the transition from specular highlight to diffuse highlight to shadow. You can control specularity. You can do a custom, manual, or pre-set white balance in reference to a target. All those things are necessary to stay within the limits of what JPEGs can contain.

Examples of where I would use JPEG capture professionally:

School portraits (that entire industry uses JPEG workflow from end to end).
eBay product photography of small items under "tent" lighting
Parts catalog photography
Any location where the lighting is very flat and uniform and well diffused, and more importantly, does not change during the photography. I'll use 100% manual exposure (pre-set custom white balance, fixed aperture, fixed shutter, and fixed ISO).

In most other situations, I'll use raw capture and post-processing.

In a comparison of exposure latitude, JPEG capture is much like color slide film photography. Raw capture is much like color negative film photography
Yes, many comments will ensue. br br I have two d... (show quote)

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Apr 26, 2022 11:26:57   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
I see a lot of truly outstanding photos on this site that were taken RAW and then post processed. I tried taking a few RAW and right out of the camera they pretty mundane. I don’t have photoshop, so of course I can’t doctor them up properly.

I guess my question is, you that post process, do you shoot all of your shots as RAW, or just those you think have potential for something better? I ask because last evening my daughter, two grandsons and I took an evening walk. She and I both had cameras and together (including one of the boys) we shot nearly 400 jpeg images. Yes I trash canned a bunch, but the amount of time I would have spent post processing RAWs would have been enormous. Any responses?
I see a lot of truly outstanding photos on this si... (show quote)


I shoot raw only nearly always and I expose to the right. That means most of my photos come out of the camera looking pretty dark and they nearly all need tonal adjustments. After importing the raw files into LR I first look for bursts of images that need special treatment - usually HDR or Panorama and I tend to process them first into a stack with the merged image on top. And I use the automatic tonal adjustment to fix up the other images.

At this point, I generally spend some time reviewing the images to pick out the images that are either interesting to me (I may learn something from them) or which have some promise to be particularly good images; during this process I toss out the truly bad images. The promising images are the only ones I spend much time with.

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Apr 26, 2022 12:35:04   #
manofhg Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
I always shoot in RAW for the reasons others have stated above, more adjustment latitude. I do go through EVERY picture, but don't necessarily do anything to most of them. When my images are brought in the LR, I have some standard processing that I've set up that I put them all through and adjust from there. I do typically trash or discard most of my shots, not so much because I didn't expose them right, but I often times am trying for a certain expression when shooting candid shots and may shoot many shots in the process. Later I'll pull the one that captures the expression I was after and discard the rest.

I recently shot a large event and took over 4100 pictures. It took quite a while to process them, but when I was done, I had about 1100 that I then posted as jpegs for the event participants to have/use.

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Apr 26, 2022 14:36:23   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
For those who don't do postprocessing, I would just like to give my opinion (in case you weren't expecting it).

I put ALL my images into LR. Most of get some form of processing. Even if the exposure and color and all that are fine, I do not feel constrained to use the aspect ratio that my camera uses. I feel that the aspect ratio is part of the composition, and I adjust it to make the composition the way I want it.

I see no reason to limit my images to a fixed aspect ratio. Therefore, most of my images will require some postprocessing.

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Apr 26, 2022 14:39:05   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
I am lucky to have an option to expose for highlights, which I use religiously, since for me any image with blown highlights gets immediately deleted. Film and digital are totally different in this respect. Film is forgiving of overexposure and very non-forgiving of underexposure. With digital you can underexpose and pull up shadows quite a bit, but overexposed highlights are gone.

Therefore, many of my images need to be pulled up a couple of stops to get the correct tonal distribution. This would be a fool's mission with an 8 bit jpg. Using RAW, I can fully use the camera's near-15 EV dynamic range. Also, many shots are grabs, and RAW gives me insurance in case the metering is slightly off. RAW has saved many shots for me.

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Apr 26, 2022 15:08:06   #
srt101fan
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
For those who don't do postprocessing, I would just like to give my opinion (in case you weren't expecting it).

I put ALL my images into LR. Most of get some form of processing. Even if the exposure and color and all that are fine, I do not feel constrained to use the aspect ratio that my camera uses. I feel that the aspect ratio is part of the composition, and I adjust it to make the composition the way I want it.

I see no reason to limit my images to a fixed aspect ratio. Therefore, most of my images will require some postprocessing.
For those who don't do postprocessing, I would jus... (show quote)


Bingo!

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Apr 26, 2022 22:18:48   #
bikinkawboy Loc: north central Missouri
 
You guys have given myself and others some very good advice. Thanks!

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Apr 27, 2022 07:40:33   #
RLSprouse Loc: Encinitas CA (near Sandy Eggo)
 
Yes.

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Apr 27, 2022 09:53:09   #
philo Loc: philo, ca
 
To shoot or not to shoot Raw is the question.
If you enjoy the work then shoot Raw. If you don't really care then shoot jpeg. Both can give you outstanding photos. What you see on the back of your camera is a jpeg image. What you see when you down load a raw image is a undeveloped images, and should be worked on. A jpeg image may be the out of camera image that you are happy with and a raw image is the starting point for your final product.

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Apr 27, 2022 11:46:57   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
I see a lot of truly outstanding photos on this site that were taken RAW and then post processed. I tried taking a few RAW and right out of the camera they pretty mundane. I don’t have photoshop, so of course I can’t doctor them up properly.

I guess my question is, you that post process, do you shoot all of your shots as RAW, or just those you think have potential for something better? I ask because last evening my daughter, two grandsons and I took an evening walk. She and I both had cameras and together (including one of the boys) we shot nearly 400 jpeg images. Yes I trash canned a bunch, but the amount of time I would have spent post processing RAWs would have been enormous. Any responses?
I see a lot of truly outstanding photos on this si... (show quote)


Shoot what you like, who cares about what I prefer... This topic is so over-done and often "troll" driven on this site. Who cares what any prefers to shoot, RAW or JPEG?

Cheers!

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Apr 27, 2022 11:56:16   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
I respect the individual's decision to use one or the other, but I do believe the decision should be made using as much information as possible. Understanding drives good decisions.

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Apr 27, 2022 12:19:39   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
xt2 wrote:
Shoot what you like, who cares about what I prefer... This topic is so over-done and often "troll" driven on this site. Who cares what any prefers to shoot, RAW or JPEG?

Cheers!


People just want to understand the two formats. IMHO There is a lot of unnecessary emotion that gets injected into discusions on this particular topic.

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Apr 27, 2022 12:23:45   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
burkphoto wrote:
Yes, many comments will ensue.

I have two distinct workflows. I use JPEGs on my iPhone. When I do serious work with my Lumix, I'll use raw for my personal work, and raw for professional work in events where there is variable lighting, or in high dynamic range situations. I use JPEG for certain kinds of paid work where I can control the lighting and the contrast ratio.

JPEG was conceived as a DISTRIBUTION format. It applies lossy compression. The camera is taking a 12, 14, or 16 bits per color channel file and processing it to an 8 bits per color channel file, then it compresses it heavily. So it throws away lots of data from the sensor... first when downsampling it to 8 bits per color channel, then when saving the file. That is why it isn't particularly well-suited to post processing.

Raw files contain all the digitized but otherwise unprocessed data from the sensor. So the entire dynamic range is there.

Photo papers generally reflect only a 5 to 5.5 stop range of brightness under normal room lighting. But your camera can record 12 to 15 stops of brightness range in a raw file! If the scene brightness exceeds 5.5 stops, the camera is going to clip some of that range in the highlights, or the shadows, or both. So if you save the raw file, you can recover some of the highlights and shadows and compress them into a 5.5 stop range that will fit on photo paper.

That can be important when using the camera in bright daylight with no clouds in the sky. It can be important for macro copying film negatives. It can be important when doing event work such as weddings, where black tuxedos and white wedding gowns need to show texture in the fabrics.

If you want great results from JPEGs (meaning accurate color and detail in highlights and shadows), you have to nail the exposure. You have to set an accurate white balance at the camera, and you have to avoid the need for heavy post-processing. If you are working with studio lighting, you can control the ratio of brightness from highlights to shadows. You can control shadow edge acuteness. You can control the transition from specular highlight to diffuse highlight to shadow. You can control specularity. You can do a custom, manual, or pre-set white balance in reference to a target. All those things are necessary to stay within the limits of what JPEGs can contain.

Examples of where I would use JPEG capture professionally:

School portraits (that entire industry uses JPEG workflow from end to end).
eBay product photography of small items under "tent" lighting
Parts catalog photography
Any location where the lighting is very flat and uniform and well diffused, and more importantly, does not change during the photography. I'll use 100% manual exposure (pre-set custom white balance, fixed aperture, fixed shutter, and fixed ISO).

In most other situations, I'll use raw capture and post-processing.

In a comparison of exposure latitude, JPEG capture is much like color slide film photography. Raw capture is much like color negative film photography
Yes, many comments will ensue. br br I have two d... (show quote)


Very detailed reply!

Now I have a question. You presented a processed raw photo showing a lot more detail In the sky. The sky in the JPEG didn’t look blown out , so could you not have processed the JPEG as well, to bring out more detail to a similar degree?

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Apr 27, 2022 17:34:52   #
pdsilen Loc: Roswell, New Mexico
 
Delderby wrote:
Is not your use of the word "guess" here a bit unkind? - when set to automatic both cameras and editors actually look at the subject, and then adjust accordingly to produce best result within their remit.


It is true. RAW shooting and post processing will give you a better quality image. But here's mi issue. Many of my customers prefer their photos in jpg. But when I post process in RAW and store the files on my computer I don't get a snapshot of the image like I do when I post process in jpg. What I get is a black icon saying, "Ps PSD" When I try to pull up the image I have to jump through a lot of hoops.

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