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Super 8 and Regular 8 scanning
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Mar 24, 2022 13:41:07   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
drmike99 wrote:
I have a substantial number of regular 8 and super 8 movies on 200 foot (5 inch) reels that I'd like to digitize, before they degrade. Kodachromes seem to age well because Kodachrome ages well in the dark and the individual frames get very little light, even in the days that I projected them a lot. There are several modestly priced scanners available through Amazon and other sellers.There are two models by Wolverine (at $299 and $399) but I have heard some less than stellar (to be kind) reviews of these. Kodak has one now (REELZ) and there is one on Amazon called the eyesen. Price of each of those is in the same $299-$399 zone. Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge of or experience with any of these? Once I finish scanning, I could unload the scanner on eBay and recoup at least half of my money.

Second question: they seem to list scanning at either 20 fps or 30 fps (that's output, not speed of scanning). Regular 8 ran at 16 fps and super 8 at 18 fps so how would one correct the scanned output?
I have a substantial number of regular 8 and super... (show quote)

I shot a lot of Super 8 movies of my kids in the 1970’s, and believe they were at 30 fps. Are you sure they were at 18 fps?

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Mar 24, 2022 14:59:14   #
piano44
 
Bobspez wrote:
I have not scanned my large 8mm reel containing all my spliced reels because it and my projector were stolen years ago from the back seat of my car. However, if I were to do it I would set up a flat white piece of poster board on the wall, darken the room by covering the windows, and run the film on a projector and video it with a 4K camera on a tripod. This would allow you to scan in real time, rather than frame by frame. And you could easily improve the image and the speed in a video editor like Premiere Pro. And if there is a sound track you could tweak that as well with an audio editor like Adobe Audition which works together with Adobe Premiere Pro within the Premiere Pro timeline.

Everything I have read on film scanners has a lot of negatives, very long time to digitize a frame at a time, damaging the film, frequent stalls and need to watch the scanner during the entire process, unsatisfactory results.

I believe 16mm film runs at 24fps so there should be no frame rate mismatch there if you set the camera video to 24 fps. So I would start with the 16mm film. I would adjust the size of the projected image to get the clearest and best image with the naked eye.

This is just a guess but if you experiment with different shutter speeds and fps videoing the 8mm film you may be able to improve flicker due to mismatched frame rates. There are also youtube videos on techniques to remove light flicker in Premiere Pro that may work on frame rate mismatch flicker. But when you get the best techniques figured out, it should work for the rest of your project.

I wish I still had my 8mm reel to give this a try. Good luck.
I have not scanned my large 8mm reel containing al... (show quote)


What about a projector with a 5-bladed shutter? As I understand, most movie projectors have a rotating shutter with 3 blades, to add more "flickers" to the projected image. If you only had 16 flickers per second, your eye would notice it. But 16 x 3 = 48 flickers, and the persistence of your eye smooths this out. So 18 fps gives you 54 flickers per second, and 24 fps gives you 72. But a video camera shoots 30 frames per second, so none of these match up. But with a 5-bladed shutter, you get 18 x 5 = 90, or 24 x 5 = 120. These both divide evenly by 30, a better match. However, 16 x 5 = 80, which still does not divide evenly by 30. I have bought a 5-bladed projector on eBay, but haven't tried this out yet.

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Mar 24, 2022 15:17:31   #
58tr3a
 
Wolverine warranty is also based on number of scans. If film breaks and you need to restart, counts as 2 scans.
Bought a Magnasonic unit instead, same price. Higher resolution scan, much better warranty (not based on number of scans).
Time consuming, but decent results. Scanned approx 20 films (250ft/ film)

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Mar 24, 2022 15:24:56   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Fredrick wrote:
I shot a lot of Super 8 movies of my kids in the 1970’s, and believe they were at 30 fps. Are you sure they were at 18 fps?


Super 8 silent was shot at 18 fps, assuming the camera was accurate. One of my Super 8 Sound cameras gave the option of 18 or 24 fps. I got rid of it when you couldn't buy the sound film any longer and the film was getting to be really expensive. I still have the movies I shot with it. My personal take is that Super 8 is a better picture than VHS video, maybe even better than early digital video in SD, but not even close to HD.

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Mar 24, 2022 15:33:47   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Fredrick wrote:
I shot a lot of Super 8 movies of my kids in the 1970’s, and believe they were at 30 fps. Are you sure they were at 18 fps?


I believe Super 8 used for most home movies and projectors is 18 FPS and Super 8 shot for more professional use and with higher end cameras has a 24 FPS rate as an option. I’ve never seen 30 FPS Super 8, but it would certainly be convenient for conversion to video.

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Mar 24, 2022 16:29:45   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
TriX wrote:
I believe Super 8 used for most home movies and projectors is 18 FPS and Super 8 shot for more professional use and with higher end cameras has a 24 FPS rate as an option. I’ve never seen 30 FPS Super 8, but it would certainly be convenient for conversion to video.


I can see a reason for Super 8 Sound at 24 fps. Before reporters roamed with video cameras, they shot news stories on Super 8 Sound, and the equipment was already in place to do the 3:2 pulldown to convert 24 fps to 30 fps for broadcast on TV. Super 8 Sound was more convenient than the 16mm that preceded it because the sound was recorded and synched in real time in the camera. Video eventually replaced it.

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Mar 24, 2022 16:45:22   #
drmike99 Loc: Fairfield Connecticut
 
58tr3a wrote:
Wolverine warranty is also based on number of scans. If film breaks and you need to restart, counts as 2 scans.
Bought a Magnasonic unit instead, same price. Higher resolution scan, much better warranty (not based on number of scans).
Time consuming, but decent results. Scanned approx 20 films (250ft/ film)

Do you have details on the Magnasonic? I’ve only seen the Kodak Reelz, eyesen and the two Wolverines.

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Mar 24, 2022 16:47:59   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
TriX wrote:
I believe Super 8 used for most home movies and projectors is 18 FPS and Super 8 shot for more professional use and with higher end cameras has a 24 FPS rate as an option. I’ve never seen 30 FPS Super 8, but it would certainly be convenient for conversion to video.


Thanks!

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Mar 24, 2022 16:48:40   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
therwol wrote:
Super 8 silent was shot at 18 fps, assuming the camera was accurate. One of my Super 8 Sound cameras gave the option of 18 or 24 fps. I got rid of it when you couldn't buy the sound film any longer and the film was getting to be really expensive. I still have the movies I shot with it. My personal take is that Super 8 is a better picture than VHS video, maybe even better than early digital video in SD, but not even close to HD.

Thanks!

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Mar 24, 2022 17:21:50   #
drmike99 Loc: Fairfield Connecticut
 
Fredrick wrote:
I shot a lot of Super 8 movies of my kids in the 1970’s, and believe they were at 30 fps. Are you sure they were at 18 fps?


Super 8 was 18 fps.

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Mar 24, 2022 17:35:51   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
piano44 wrote:
What about a projector with a 5-bladed shutter? As I understand, most movie projectors have a rotating shutter with 3 blades, to add more "flickers" to the projected image. If you only had 16 flickers per second, your eye would notice it. But 16 x 3 = 48 flickers, and the persistence of your eye smooths this out. So 18 fps gives you 54 flickers per second, and 24 fps gives you 72. But a video camera shoots 30 frames per second, so none of these match up. But with a 5-bladed shutter, you get 18 x 5 = 90, or 24 x 5 = 120. These both divide evenly by 30, a better match. However, 16 x 5 = 80, which still does not divide evenly by 30. I have bought a 5-bladed projector on eBay, but haven't tried this out yet.
What about a projector with a 5-bladed shutter? A... (show quote)
From further research it seems like the flicker may be a moving bar across the image like we used to see on old tube TV's when the vertical hold needed to be adjusted. If that is the case then a variable speed 8mm/super 8mm projector might be the only answer. Here's one on youtube that advertised flicker free film transfers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjSo892DKms
Maybe someone who has videoed projected 8mm and super 8mm might chime in here.

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Mar 24, 2022 17:52:53   #
Tote1940 Loc: Dallas
 
Wolverine bought 200 ‘ model worked well but my reels (around 50) were 400’
Bought 400’ model scanned all
Fantastic results much better than commercial scans
Cannot take Sound Super 8
Sometimes gets stuck on splices or old splices split
Be sure to clean film first, use a hand cranked film editor a microfiber cloth and Kodak film cleaner, also serves to check splices
Framing sometimes drifts, keep an eye on screen to make sure well framed
Used camel hair brush and canned air to keep film gate clean
Do not rewind with Wolverine use a film editor rig
Left hand spool too loose (supply reel) I taped a light cardboard piece to keep pressure and prevent too much film to be pulled
May skip last wheel on right , just before take up reel They are not real spools just guide an extra reason to clean them and film to prevent scratches
Nice to adjust exposure , some of my Dad’s 1948 Keystone movies overexposed, improved
May use iMovie to tune up final product
Lastly what a marvel Kodachrome was !
Movies over 70 years old look pristine
Cannot say the same for Ferrania (Focal) 80’s Super 8 much color drifting
Overall love This scanner
Remember it scans frame by frame so recording speed not a problem
No problem with synchronization bars
You can adjust replay speed with iMovie
Only drawback cannot handle Sound Super 8

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Mar 24, 2022 18:07:20   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
drmike99 wrote:
Super 8 was 18 fps.


Thanks.

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Mar 24, 2022 18:48:31   #
BebuLamar
 
Fredrick wrote:
I shot a lot of Super 8 movies of my kids in the 1970’s, and believe they were at 30 fps. Are you sure they were at 18 fps?


I think you meant Video 8 not Super 8 which is 18fps. Video 8 has several format from standard 8mm to Hi 8 and then Digital 8 but they all magnetic tape and not film.

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Mar 24, 2022 19:57:36   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I think you meant Video 8 not Super 8 which is 18fps. Video 8 has several format from standard 8mm to Hi 8 and then Digital 8 but they all magnetic tape and not film.

Could be. All I remember is I used a Minolta video camera and it used Super 8 film.

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