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Maybe this needs to be said more often?
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Feb 9, 2022 18:51:21   #
lindadak Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
 

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Feb 9, 2022 22:31:37   #
Nickaroo
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I guess I am lucky. I've been in the picture business all my life and NOBODY ever asked me to do that. Perhaps the folks that are into cellphone portraiture can do selfies- there are even apps for artificial makeup and some kinda retouching.

If. however, you are set upon by lots of folks who choose to abuse your good nature and largess, I have a few quick retorts. Try these:

Bring your Dremel tool and some wood filler to your dentist and ask him or her to meet you in the coffee shop and knock off a few cavities.

Ask your plastic surgeon if he can drop by your apartment and mention that you have a new set of knives and a neat ball-peen hammer so he could do a pro bono nose job for you.

You need to explain that all PROFESSIONALS need their working environment and place, all their equipment and most of all the expertise and talent- and those things all cost money.
I guess I am lucky. I've been in the picture busi... (show quote)


Well, you certainly have one Jewish guy laughing after that one. New NickName for you, MR. Don Rickles everyone. You are awesome, my Brothers are dying in laughter and my one Brother that I had join the DEA to follow my footsteps just did a screenshot and sent to His Section Chief. LOL!!!

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Feb 9, 2022 23:11:43   #
RonDavis Loc: Chicago, IL
 
Bobby123 wrote:
If I'm in a tourist area and someone or a group wants a cell phone picture then they aren't looking for portraiture, they're looking for a memory. I spend a minute or two and I always, always get a warm and grateful response. If I see a family and one parent is taking a photo of the family with a great background I'll offer to take the photo so they can all be in the picture. It's just common courtesy. It doesn't cost me anything and they have a photo to keep. I don't understand how that could be a problem. If they are asking for a professional service for free then that's a whole different issue and it can be educational to help them get over their sense of entitlement.
If I'm in a tourist area and someone or a group wa... (show quote)


It's nice to be helpful...and most of the time we take better pictures than the member of the group or family...it's be a win-win in my experience.

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Feb 9, 2022 23:30:39   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
People who ask you to take their picture with their cellphone are probably interested only in recording a moment in their lives and are not trying to scam you into doing work for free. I say that if you have the time then take the picture with a smile and introduce yourself as a professional photographer, give them your card and leave them feeling good about the encounter.

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Feb 10, 2022 00:52:52   #
b top gun
 
I am uncomfortable touching someone else's cell phone...period; I try to not even make eye contact with them. Just because I have a Nikon hanging off my neck does not mean I am available to use anyone's cell phone to take their pic. Last September I was on the left coast shooting seascapes; was in the middle of shooting some video when I was interrupted to take a couple's pic with their cell phone; I was annoyed, told them I was in the middle of something; when I finished the video I approached them and did take their pic with their cell, then they left in a rush in their two seater convertible with California plates; the vehicle screamed $$$$$$$$$$$$. I have never shot a wedding but a while back I was at a local garden area when the magnolias were in full bloom. A very small wedding party showed up and the mother of the bride approached me to take a couple of pics of the bridal party with her cell phone. I was happy to do that and asked the bride's mother if she would like a few pics with my Nikon, I had a D300 at the time. I asked her for her email address to forward the D300 pics; I got the nicest TY email reply from her. I am not a scrooge all the time; just most of the time!!!

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Feb 10, 2022 04:29:36   #
Murray Loc: New Westminster
 
👍👍👍👍👍

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Feb 10, 2022 06:36:29   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
Gene51 wrote:
Totally agree. But sadly, most people have a low bar and are fine with cellphone images, and can't get their heads around the difference between good camera/lens photography and what the cellphone produces. People just don't buy prints anymore, and when viewed on an HD or UHD screen there is little difference to see to the uninitiated.

If I am somewhere with my camera around my neck, and someone asks me to take a picture, I usually say "sure, let me have your cellphone or camera and I'll take one of you." If they ask me to take it with my camera - I say sure - my fee is _______" They usually hand over the cellphone (or camera).
Totally agree. But sadly, most people have a low b... (show quote)

"most people have a low bar"
There we are, a nice snide put down.

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Feb 10, 2022 10:01:42   #
Joexx
 
Bobby123 wrote:
If I'm in a tourist area and someone or a group wants a cell phone picture then they aren't looking for portraiture, they're looking for a memory. I spend a minute or two and I always, always get a warm and grateful response. If I see a family and one parent is taking a photo of the family with a great background I'll offer to take the photo so they can all be in the picture. It's just common courtesy. It doesn't cost me anything and they have a photo to keep. I don't understand how that could be a problem. If they are asking for a professional service for free then that's a whole different issue and it can be educational to help them get over their sense of entitlement.
If I'm in a tourist area and someone or a group wa... (show quote)



Well stated Bobby,

Wow, I must admit I am quite surprised by all of the (mostly self aggrandizing) comments. To equate taking a snapshot of someone with their camera because they want to be in the picture, with asking for free professional services (medical advice, legal work, carpentry , wedding pictures,etc) is a logical fallacy. When I am on vacation I get asked all the time to take a snapshot. I never once thought "wow, I am so much better than you and my snapshot will be so good that I really should be paid for this" . . . .
A quick vacation snapshot IS NOT in any way a request for a professional service. Most times it is just "hey, I it would be nice if I had shot of me and my wife in front of something and we need another person to push a button. Minimal skill needed. Kind of the same as someone asking you assist with any brief task that they need a 2nd person for. Think of it this way: If you walked into a lobby of a building and there was someone on a ladder fixing something and as you walked by, they asked you to hand them a hammer that was on the floor, just out of their reach, would you say (or think) "no way, I am professional carpenter and how dare they ask me to do something professional". I think most people would just hand them the hammer and be happy to assist.

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Feb 10, 2022 10:05:30   #
BebuLamar
 
Joexx wrote:
Well stated Bobby,

Wow, I must admit I am quite surprised by all of the (mostly self aggrandizing) comments. To equate taking a snapshot of someone with their camera because they want to be in the picture, with asking for free professional services (medical advice, legal work, carpentry , wedding pictures,etc) is a logical fallacy. When I am on vacation I get asked all the time to take a snapshot. I never once thought "wow, I am so much better than you and my snapshot will be so good that I really should be paid for this" . . . .
A quick vacation snapshot IS NOT in any way a request for a professional service. Most times it is just "hey, I it would be nice if I had shot of me and my wife in front of something and we need another person to push a button. Minimal skill needed. Kind of the same as someone asking you assist with any brief task that they need a 2nd person for. Think of it this way: If you walked into a lobby of a building and there was someone on a ladder fixing something and as you walked by, they asked you to hand them a hammer that was on the floor, just out of their reach, would you say (or think) "no way, I am professional carpenter and how dare they ask me to do something professional". I think most people would just hand them the hammer and be happy to assist.
Well stated Bobby, br br Wow, I must admit I am ... (show quote)


As I said I am glad I don't have to deal with the professional photographers. They always said it's the guy behind the camera that counts but yeah the phone camera is no good. I guess only the money that counts.

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Feb 10, 2022 10:14:41   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
cactuspic wrote:
When I’ve been at the beach or at parks, I have been asked to take a cell phone pic on occasion. Usually, it’s been the sort of situation where the cellphone owner has already taken pictures of the family or companions and just wants to be included in one of the images…a snapshot for the memories… no investment of time. It always brought smile. It just seems like one of those small acts of kindness that i wish was more common. I never got the impression that someone was taking advantage or trying to get a professional freebie.

...
When I’ve been at the beach or at parks, I have be... (show quote)


That's called a favor... They simply want to be in the picture than missing by taking it.

How would one know that they might be asking a "professional" photographer???
Some people carry so much stuff that they look like a traveling camera shop.

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Feb 10, 2022 10:25:40   #
scubadoc Loc: Sarasota, FL
 
Shutterbugsailer wrote:
As a fellow physician, I got you beat. Nearly 20 years ago, I moved into a new townhome development in Staten Island. I left my car with MD plates in the driveway because I filled the garage with tools and boating gear. Down the block lived a neighbor with his wife and 2 pre teen kids. He happened to be a chef at some fancy restaurant. When he saw me outside, washing my car, he introduced himself and his family to me, and looked at those doctor plates. Two weeks later, he stopped by my house, asking if I could have a peek at his son's throat, claiming that he had to go to work, and their pediatrician was not available. I did it just to be nice. Over the next several months, this pattern repeated itself. Finally, on Thanksgiving, just as he and his family were leaving to have dinner with relatives, I showed up at his door with a turkey, asking if he could cook it. Never happened again. Some three years ago, while at a stoplight, a man with his teenage daughter, pulled up to me and asked if I could write his daughter her adderal prescription, a contolled substance used for attention deficit disorder as a favor. Her doctor was home sick with the flu. I replied that I couldn't help him, and that there was an urgent care center down the road. His response was that they didn't take her insurance and would charge $150.00 to see her. He drove as S class Mercedes. My response was "You drive a lot nicer car than I do and expect me to do it for free. If you can afford the Benz, you can afford to pay for a doctor's visit". He just gave me the finger" Was I wrong? Look at the POS car I drive.
As a fellow physician, I got you beat. Nearly 20 ... (show quote)

Maybe I can beat that:
I used to use the prefix Dr when booking airline flights. I stopped doing that when I was asked on a cross country flight to aid a First Class passenger in distress. Passenger happened to be retired Army General Omar Bradley, who had both CAD and COPD. I am a radiologist, but had several years of internal medicine training so I was able to administer the correct dosage of aminophylline to ease his breathing. He was surrounded by his aids as well as a nurse, and I became an instant hero. The attendants found a First Class seat for me for the remainder of the 6 hour flight, and on arrival in LAX, his aide asked me if there was anything else they could do. I said that a ride from LAX to the Century Plaza hotel would be nice, and I was told to wait outside the baggage claim area. After collecting my luggage, I went to the arrival lane and sure enough, there was an army vehicle ready to pick me up. The ride was a beautifully maintained open air Army Jeep. The sergeant threw my bags into the back of the Jeep and drove to the Century Plaza. The doorman couldn’t believe his eyes as a Jeep in camouflage paint drove up and the sergeant picked up my luggage and deposited the stuff in front of the doorman.
While that made for a great story, I decided then and there to book future flights as Mr. not Dr.

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Feb 10, 2022 11:25:58   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Fine story.
scubadoc wrote:
Maybe I can beat that:
I used to use the prefix Dr when booking airline flights. I stopped doing that when I was asked on a cross country flight to aid a First Class passenger in distress. Passenger happened to be retired Army General Omar Bradley, who had both CAD and COPD. I am a radiologist, but had several years of internal medicine training so I was able to administer the correct dosage of aminophylline to ease his breathing. He was surrounded by his aids as well as a nurse, and I became an instant hero. The attendants found a First Class seat for me for the remainder of the 6 hour flight, and on arrival in LAX, his aide asked me if there was anything else they could do. I said that a ride from LAX to the Century Plaza hotel would be nice, and I was told to wait outside the baggage claim area. After collecting my luggage, I went to the arrival lane and sure enough, there was an army vehicle ready to pick me up. The ride was a beautifully maintained open air Army Jeep. The sergeant threw my bags into the back of the Jeep and drove to the Century Plaza. The doorman couldn’t believe his eyes as a Jeep in camouflage paint drove up and the sergeant picked up my luggage and deposited the stuff in front of the doorman.
While that made for a great story, I decided then and there to book future flights as Mr. not Dr.
Maybe I can beat that: br I used to use the prefix... (show quote)

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Feb 10, 2022 11:44:20   #
Shutterbugsailer Loc: Staten Island NY (AKA Cincinnati by the Sea)
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Perhaps the thread has gone slightly off-topic. The OP mentioned that folks had some expectation of a studio-quality professional portrait from a cell phone. As I stated previously, my friends and neighbours, who know I am a professional photograher, have never asked me to do that. Some of these folks, over the three years, have come to my studio and paid my fees as they would at any neighbourhood business. For very close friends and family, I have done work at a discount or did a few for free. Some of my kid's classmates could not afford a really good grad portrait so I gave them a graduation present. I have donated my work to help charitable fundraising. During ther heigh of the pandemic lockdowns, I helped out a few local restaurant owners by shootg some food shots for their online takeout and curbside pickup online menus at low rates or in exchange for some food service. We need to try to keep each herein business. Members of a community should be willing to give back.

I made reference to dentists and plastic surgeons. Obviously, optional and non-emergency plastic surgery and some kind of cosmetic dentistry are luxury items but if I was a physician, I would not refuse anyone medical advice if I thought they were seriously ill, in pain, or might be suffering a severe or deadly illness or injury. I'm sure most doctors wod agree. It's unfortunately true, that some folks have no respect for professionalism. If I had a sick kid, I would not seek out fee advice from a friend or neighbour who is a health professional. I would call my family doctor or go immediately to the local ER.

WOW! That "MD" license plate is impressive it bears the Caduceus or the Staff of Acelepiouss, the symbols of medicine! In my New York days, the "MD" was just part of the letter/number combination on the plate. It was issued so doctors could make house calls without worrying about parking restrictions. I guess they don't do house calls anymore so the MD thing on the tag may be a vanity plate! If a person does not want to advertise his or her profession, they shouldn't get that plate. Gotta admit again, it's very impressive!
Well, I did remove my studio logo from the van- it tended to attract car burglars. Now it's a black SUV with dark-tinted windows- looks like a funeral director's removal car and nobody bothers it anymore.

Back to cell phone cameras. My city is a busy tourist location so if some nice visitor asks me to shoot a cellphone shot, with their phone, I just smile and do it! I don't waste time and tell them I am a photograher. All they want is a shot of the family in front of the Parliament Buildings. I'll just say " Bienvenue à Ottawa, souriez et regardez la caméra" so they think I speak no English and they walk away contented with my "masterpiece" in their phone!
Perhaps the thread has gone slightly off-topic. T... (show quote)


Good point, but were you in my shoes, what would you have done with that neighbor who kept coming by and taking advantage of your good nature? Would you have risked the liability of prescribing a controlled and possibly dangerous medication for a total stranger who pulled up to you at a stop light?

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Feb 10, 2022 15:44:41   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Shutterbugsailer wrote:
Good point, but were you in my shoes, what would you have done with that neighbour who kept coming by and taking advantage of your good nature? Would you have risked the liability of prescribing a controlled and possibly dangerous medication for a total stranger who pulled up to you at a stoplight?


Problem is- some photographers and other artisans and tradespersons like to compare themselves to doctors and lawyers. I have to remind them that even professional photographers are not health professionals and do not deal in life and death situations as a matter of their daily activities. I tell them that if we botch up a job, withhold services, make a critical mistake, nobody gets sick or sicker or dies. Nobody goes to jail or loses their fortune. Dispensing a medication that can prove to be lethal or cause devastating side effects has nothing to do with photography unless one is the clinical and identification photographer at the path lab at the medical examiner's office!

The story about General Bradley is certainly a good read. The good doctor used his DR. prefix in purchasing his ticket and gallantly respond to the "is there a doctor in the house" -well airplane- and saved a life. Just inagein if some guy with a doctorate in some obscure academic discipline was there and had used his title/prefix. Well, if he was a Doctor of Divinity, the good General many have come to his untimely demise succumbing to respiratory failure. There would be, however, someone on hand to administer the last rites!

I can relate some gory stories from my 2 tours in Vietnam. Too much blood and guts to talk about. I am no physician but I knew just enough physiology to know how to apply a tourniquet to the brachial and femoral arteries and prevent guys from bleeding out before the medics got there. All those nasty little landmines and shrapnel issues!

It's too bad we all live in a litigious environment where everyone is suing everyone else- oftentimes frivolously! It's especially too bad that medical doctors have to worry about liability claims when they are trying to save lives. It is also a sorry situation when so many in the general public do not believe in science and medicine and have no concept of what is required for a medical examination and diagnosis. If someone is feeling ill, they should know better than accosting a doctor on the street, road, or ther driveway and asking for medical advice. Folks should know enough to see their doctor or present themselves at the nearest ER. I am quite sure if your neighbour came to you and told you his kid was seriously injured, or showing severe symptoms, you would have responded immediately.

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Feb 10, 2022 16:45:44   #
scallihan Loc: Tigard, OR
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Problem is- some photographers and other artisans and tradespersons like to compare themselves to doctors and lawyers. I have to remind them that even professional photographers are not health professionals and do not deal in life and death situations as a matter of their daily activities. I tell them that if we botch up a job, withhold services, make a critical mistake, nobody gets sick or sicker or dies. Nobody goes to jail or loses their fortune. Dispensing a medication that can prove to be lethal or cause devastating side effects has nothing to do with photography unless one is the clinical and identification photographer at the path lab at the medical examiner's office!

The story about General Bradley is certainly a good read. The good doctor used his DR. prefix in purchasing his ticket and gallantly respond to the "is there a doctor in the house" -well airplane- and saved a life. Just inagein if some guy with a doctorate in some obscure academic discipline was there and had used his title/prefix. Well, if he was a Doctor of Divinity, the good General many have come to his untimely demise succumbing to respiratory failure. There would be, however, someone on hand to administer the last rites!

I can relate some gory stories from my 2 tours in Vietnam. Too much blood and guts to talk about. I am no physician but I knew just enough physiology to know how to apply a tourniquet to the brachial and femoral arteries and prevent guys from bleeding out before the medics got there. All those nasty little landmines and shrapnel issues!

It's too bad we all live in a litigious environment where everyone is suing everyone else- oftentimes frivolously! It's especially too bad that medical doctors have to worry about liability claims when they are trying to save lives. It is also a sorry situation when so many in the general public do not believe in science and medicine and have no concept of what is required for a medical examination and diagnosis. If someone is feeling ill, they should know better than accosting a doctor on the street, road, or ther driveway and asking for medical advice. Folks should know enough to see their doctor or present themselves at the nearest ER. I am quite sure if your neighbour came to you and told you his kid was seriously injured, or showing severe symptoms, you would have responded immediately.
Problem is- some photographers and other artisans ... (show quote)



Physicians generally have legal immunity to claims of ordinary negligence, but not to gross, willful, or wanton negligence, when treating in a "good samaritan" role outside the scope of their duties.

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