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Making It Harder To Vote
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Feb 4, 2022 11:57:48   #
David Martin Loc: Cary, NC
 

These are 3 largely opinion pieces, one-sided, and simply regurgitate the narrative. FiveThirtyEight for example mischaracterize Georgia's law regarding removal of local election officials. ACLU complains about Georgia's early voting, yet ignores (blue) states with fewer days, including Delaware which has never permitted early voting until this year. And they decry redistricting by Republicans while ignoring gerrymandering by Democrats.

If the claims were true it would be a simple matter to list what Republicans have actually passed, and then compare to the laws in other states. Yes, that would be acceptable to me. You imply that you are satisfied with less.

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Feb 4, 2022 11:58:55   #
David Martin Loc: Cary, NC
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
You are in denial if you have read, and still refuse to acknowledge the very concerted attempts by the Republicans to restrict voting opportunities in coming elections.
By what you have said, you probably still believe Trump when he says the election was stolen from him, despite ALL the evidence to the contrary, and his personal history of mendacity and crap.
Stick with it, nothing anybody can show you or present to you that would make you honest.

See my previous post.
Kindly do not presume to know what I believe; it's a waste of your time.
"Nothing anybody can show you or present to you that would make you honest" is nonsensical.

Reply
Feb 4, 2022 12:20:48   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
David Martin wrote:
See my previous post.
Kindly do not presume to know what I believe; it's a waste of your time.
"Nothing anybody can show you or present to you that would make you honest" is nonsensical.


The opening post provided the specifics that you later asked for . Leaves one to question if you didn’t read before you posted.
Yes, we all post opinions, some are questionable. I don’t represent opinions as facts, but rather ideas that should be considered. But you want to disregard any that don’t comport with you personal pre-formed OPINIONS.
You read, I believe, but only credit facts that you have already accepted.

Reply
 
 
Feb 4, 2022 12:47:36   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
The gist of these laws is to make it easy to vote and hard to cheat. There are plenty of opportunities in the states mentioned to cast an early and legal ballot and nothing that your article mentioned would slow down a citizen who who had one iota of gumption and wanted to cast a legal ballot.

As someone who voted absentee in VA elections in the 80s, I can tell you that it was easy then. Early voting is even easier now, since you can do it from outside your local district electronically, at least where I live now in NC.

Dems are mad about these laws because they're closing loopholes that allowed them to inject fake ballots into the election. END OF STORY.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 09:24:51   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Always interesting and useful to read the slanted version of a controversy, as here.

For instance, this view omits any mention of the Constitution granting the states the authority to set voting and election procedures in national elections. As a result, this view skims the surface and assumes the validity of its argument without analysis.

This claim presents a good example of this superficial approach: "Republican state lawmakers are continuing their anti-democratic efforts to crimp access to the ballot box."

For now, I will not detail the other side, only say that one man's effort to "crimp access" means tightening the integrity of the voting process to another man.

In closing, I must note that the federal government has instituted a requirement for strictily identifying an individual, called "Real ID." Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act

Perhaps experts in this matter could clarify whether or not the states may use this new identifiction document as an instrument for verifying eligibility to vote.
Kmgw9v wrote:
"If you thought Republicans were done trying to make it harder to vote, you were wrong"

"It is 2022, and Republicans are stuck in a time warp — still hung up on the 2020 presidential vote.

Regarding one point about that election, no one should forget. For the first time in modern U.S. history, a major presidential candidate refused to accept a valid decision by the American people. New revelations about defeated incumbent Donald Trump’s determination to overturn the vote in his presidency’s waning days continue to surface. They include his interest, thankfully never acted on, in ordering federal agents to seize voting machines. The House Jan. 6 committee continues its work to document how Mr. Trump’s lies instigated an attack on the Capitol.

Mr. Trump continues to lie about his loss and demand that other Republicans do the same, just this week declaring that Congress should investigate former vice president Mike Pence for refusing to overturn the 2020 vote. Many are acceding to him and to a GOP base that polls would indicate has bought into his alternate version of reality. Whipped up against supposedly rampant election fraud that does not exist, Republican state lawmakers are continuing their anti-democratic efforts to crimp access to the ballot box, as new legislative sessions get underway across the country

Arizona Republicans last year cracked down on absentee voting and ran a shambolic partisan “audit” of Joe Biden’s narrow 2020 win there — which found the count to be sound. They have nevertheless proposed a raft of new voting bills. One would ban automatic voter registration. Another would eviscerate mail-in voting and empower the legislature to reject primary and general election results. Under the proposal, if state lawmakers chose to reject the count, they could force a new election.

In Michigan, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) last year blocked GOP voting bills, so Republicans are attempting to use an unusual provision in the state constitution that would permit the legislature to impose restrictions over Ms. Whitmer’s opposition. They would create strict new voter ID requirements, call for an Arizona-like “forensic audit” of the 2020 vote and bar voting officials from proactively distributing absentee ballot applications.

In Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) wants to create an election police force under his control to hunt down voting crimes — the likely result of which would be to intimidate people doing legitimate election work. Georgia Republicans, who last year passed a wide-ranging voting restriction bill, have proposed forbidding ballot drop boxes. In Pennsylvania, GOP lawmakers have called for banning no-excuse absentee voting, which many have used during the pandemic.

Even in Virginia, where the GOP won substantial victories last November under the state’s current rules, Republicans want a crackdown, filing bills to ban drop boxes, reimpose voter ID requirements, cut the early voting window, eliminate the permanent absentee list and repeal same-day registration.

Not every one of these bills will become law, particularly in states, such as Virginia, in which Democrats maintain some power. But their existence shows Republicans’ anti-democratic drift. It also exposes their lack of faith in their ability to win by appealing to a diverse and growing electorate with their candidates and their policies. Mr. Trump might be an instigator, but many more in the party are accomplices in his campaign to undermine U.S. democracy for partisan gain."


The Washington Post
"If you thought Republicans were done trying ... (show quote)

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Feb 5, 2022 09:29:35   #
mjmoore17 Loc: Philadelphia, PA area
 
InfiniteISO wrote:
The gist of these laws is to make it easy to vote and hard to cheat. There are plenty of opportunities in the states mentioned to cast an early and legal ballot and nothing that your article mentioned would slow down a citizen who who had one iota of gumption and wanted to cast a legal ballot.

As someone who voted absentee in VA elections in the 80s, I can tell you that it was easy then. Early voting is even easier now, since you can do it from outside your local district electronically, at least where I live now in NC.

Dems are mad about these laws because they're closing loopholes that allowed them to inject fake ballots into the election. END OF STORY.
The gist of these laws is to make it easy to vote ... (show quote)


You meant to stop Repukes from stuffing the ballot with fake votes.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 09:35:56   #
Curtis_Lowe Loc: Georgia
 
Triple G wrote:
Are you too lazy to read? Many websites have heen provided where there's a listing each state's changing laws and their impact in voting.


The rules got changed a lot of places due to the panic of the pandemic, in some cases the changes were not according to the rules of how to make changes to the rules, but were done anyway due to the panic.

ID requirements are not meant to make it harder to vote only to cheat

Reply
 
 
Feb 5, 2022 09:40:11   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
mjmoore17 wrote:
You meant to stop Repukes from stuffing the ballot with fake votes.


I don't believe that is what he meant. I believe he sees that as a good thing.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 09:42:28   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
Curtis_Lowe wrote:
The rules got changed a lot of places due to the panic of the pandemic, in some cases the changes were not according to the rules of how to make changes to the rules, but were done anyway due to the panic.

ID requirements are not meant to make it harder to vote only to cheat


Obviously, you want everyone who is eligible to vote, to vote. As long as they look as you believe a "legitimate voter" should look.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 09:59:06   #
Triple G
 
mjmoore17 wrote:
You meant to stop Repukes from stuffing the ballot with fake votes.


There is a "manufactured" problem by republicans; no large scale fraud or conspiracy to defraud has been found in any state! Individual fraud has been committed by people in both parties. Because states make the rules, comparing across states is not as valid as comparing to current rules being replaced.

Integrity is obtained and maintained by:

Comprehensive voter registration with ID and signature(only one state does not do this)

Annual updating of registration master list by eliminating deaths (using SS records) and transfers will eliminate whole-scale purges of legitimate voters without their knowledge.

Verification of voter to registration at voting point.

Secure mail in ballot process.

Electronic votes backed up by paper records (for audit purposes).

Independent verifiable counting process

All other voting processes (drop off boxes, USPS drop boxes, Dates & times, etc. should be location specific with an interest in getting as many people out to vote as safely and easily as possible.

Any rule or process changes that lessen voting access for registered voters should not be allowed.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 10:57:50   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
"If you thought Republicans were done trying to make it harder to vote, you were wrong"

"It is 2022, and Republicans are stuck in a time warp — still hung up on the 2020 presidential vote.

Regarding one point about that election, no one should forget. For the first time in modern U.S. history, a major presidential candidate refused to accept a valid decision by the American people. New revelations about defeated incumbent Donald Trump’s determination to overturn the vote in his presidency’s waning days continue to surface. They include his interest, thankfully never acted on, in ordering federal agents to seize voting machines. The House Jan. 6 committee continues its work to document how Mr. Trump’s lies instigated an attack on the Capitol.

Mr. Trump continues to lie about his loss and demand that other Republicans do the same, just this week declaring that Congress should investigate former vice president Mike Pence for refusing to overturn the 2020 vote. Many are acceding to him and to a GOP base that polls would indicate has bought into his alternate version of reality. Whipped up against supposedly rampant election fraud that does not exist, Republican state lawmakers are continuing their anti-democratic efforts to crimp access to the ballot box, as new legislative sessions get underway across the country

Arizona Republicans last year cracked down on absentee voting and ran a shambolic partisan “audit” of Joe Biden’s narrow 2020 win there — which found the count to be sound. They have nevertheless proposed a raft of new voting bills. One would ban automatic voter registration. Another would eviscerate mail-in voting and empower the legislature to reject primary and general election results. Under the proposal, if state lawmakers chose to reject the count, they could force a new election.

In Michigan, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) last year blocked GOP voting bills, so Republicans are attempting to use an unusual provision in the state constitution that would permit the legislature to impose restrictions over Ms. Whitmer’s opposition. They would create strict new voter ID requirements, call for an Arizona-like “forensic audit” of the 2020 vote and bar voting officials from proactively distributing absentee ballot applications.

In Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) wants to create an election police force under his control to hunt down voting crimes — the likely result of which would be to intimidate people doing legitimate election work. Georgia Republicans, who last year passed a wide-ranging voting restriction bill, have proposed forbidding ballot drop boxes. In Pennsylvania, GOP lawmakers have called for banning no-excuse absentee voting, which many have used during the pandemic.

Even in Virginia, where the GOP won substantial victories last November under the state’s current rules, Republicans want a crackdown, filing bills to ban drop boxes, reimpose voter ID requirements, cut the early voting window, eliminate the permanent absentee list and repeal same-day registration.

Not every one of these bills will become law, particularly in states, such as Virginia, in which Democrats maintain some power. But their existence shows Republicans’ anti-democratic drift. It also exposes their lack of faith in their ability to win by appealing to a diverse and growing electorate with their candidates and their policies. Mr. Trump might be an instigator, but many more in the party are accomplices in his campaign to undermine U.S. democracy for partisan gain."


The Washington Post
"If you thought Republicans were done trying ... (show quote)


Here is but one of many articles that point out how difficult it is to obtain an absentee ballot in Europe. You do not have to agree with the writer's viewpoint but it clearly points out that even the countries that do allow them, require a Voter ID be shown to obtain a ballot. I'll try to attach the PDF of the article so you can see at the beginning the requirements for absentee ballots, if allowed at all.

Attached file:
(Download)

Reply
 
 
Feb 5, 2022 11:01:11   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
RichieC wrote:
I find it rather easy to vote.

I have to show ID and they compare my signature on the spot... so sad that some have such a low opinion of others of certain ethnic backgrounds, that they believe this is too difficult a process that they can't possibly participate... believing that an ethnic background or race is inferior and lacks intelligence or ability, is racist by its very nature.




Very well said and absolutely true. Thank you.

No matter what redistricting laws or whatever are put into place it seems that everybody else votes with no complaints or problems EXCEPT black people. The only complaints about black people having a problem with voting come from 98% White Liberals who, as you say, believe that blacks need a helping hand voting even though others, whites, orientals, Native Americans, East Indians, EVERYBODY else seems to have no problem even when they live in the same neighborhoods.

The ONLY people who do not want the black race on an even standing here in America is the Liberal Democrats and the black race baiters who insist on keeping Racism alive and well. Without Racism as a crutch the entire Democratic Party would die. The Democrats started Racism, have fertilized Racism all across America and still want Racism to further their lying corrupt agenda against America.

Dennis

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 11:10:02   #
Triple G
 
BobHartung wrote:
Here is but one of many articles that point out how difficult it is to obtain an absentee ballot in Europe. You do not have to agree with the writer's viewpoint but it clearly points out that even the countries that do allow them, require a Voter ID be shown to obtain a ballot. I'll try to attach the PDF of the article so you can see at the beginning the requirements for absentee ballots, if allowed at all.


As I understand it, absentee ballots are by individual request which allows for a verification process and vote follow-up audit. Requests for mail-in ballots would follow the same verification processes, but the volume may be much higher. Where mail in ballots are an issue is when ballots are mailed out bulk to voters using outdated registration lists. A verification process at receiving end of these bulk mailed ballots needs to be tight. Many states successfully update registration and verification process.

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 11:12:39   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
That is exactly the behavior that the Republicans are so engaged, to make it less convenient—harder to get the polls, smaller windows, or whatever means to vote. This is an attack on democracy-the less fortunate find it harder to vote, and this tactic gives the Republicans an edge, historically. Whatever ever the race, but let’s be honest, in that respect, shall we?


Explain to me how those very same exact windows do not seem a hindrance to OTHER voters who live in the very same area as the black voters you seek to help. Apparently those less convenient obstacles, harder to get to the polls, smaller windows, or whatever don't matter to OTHERS. But you tell us that blacks find it harder to vote. Hmmmm.

Give us an explanation please of how it is less convenient for blacks to vote, how is it harder to get to the polls for blacks than for other voters, how smaller windows that would be for the entire state, would make it harder for blacks to vote. Explain how these people are less fortunate. Don't they have jobs? Why not. Why are not other voters living in the very same neighborhood less fortunate as you tell us the blacks are?

Honest, you say??? You on the Left have no comprehension of honesty. You tell us blacks are unfortunate and do not have a chance to vote as whites do and yet not of you has been able to answer the questions I pose above. Why is it you worry ONLY about blacks, saying they do not have an opportunity to vote when everyone around them votes with no problem at all? Why don't you on the Left stop babying blacks and allow them to get off your Democratic Plantation and do for themselves. Why do you look upon the black race as inferior mentally speaking to the point they need your Democratic helping hand in every aspect of their lives? Treat them as human beings, as Americans, as worthy of making their way all by themselves. Only in that way will Racism truly die in America and won't be resurrected every few years by YOU. Let Slavery end today.

Dennis

Reply
Feb 5, 2022 11:18:30   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
You are in denial if you have read, and still refuse to acknowledge the very concerted attempts by the Republicans to restrict voting opportunities in coming elections.
By what you have said, you probably still believe Trump when he says the election was stolen from him, despite ALL the evidence to the contrary, and his personal history of mendacity and crap.
Stick with it, nothing anybody can show you or present to you that would make you honest.


That is Bullshit and you know it. When will you on the Left EVER GTF over President Trump. This is all about you telling us black people are not able to vote whereas other races can vote. This thread has not a thing to do with President Trump and yet here you are on schedule bringing up Trump AGAIN. Trump is no longer the President of these United States. The only people who continue bringing up the Trump name is you on the Left, not Conservatives nor Republicans. Do they/we sometimes? Of course. We all still bring up Billy Bob and Hillary, the Obamas and all the way back to George Washington on occasion. But your anti Trumpism from the Left is truly a sight to behold. Give it a rest and stick to THIS thread, another lie telling us black voters cannot vote when apparently everybody ELSE in the same neighborhood does vote with no problems. That indicates the problem is manufactured by you on the Left.

Dennis

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