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Lockdowns do not work
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Feb 3, 2022 06:59:44   #
Stephan G
 
OldSchool-WI wrote:
I have no idea just what my personal choice would be if I had a city job around a lot of people. But as a libertarian (they exist in either party)-----I want the choice to be mine. Being retried and isolated---I have chosen to avoid the jab entirely and depend upon my immune system if it should be called upon. I am a health faddist about supplements. So no risky jabs for me. And the previous quotes about twisted statistics is right to the point. Hospitals are paid to include covid in some way on a death certificate--even though negligible as causation of death. All is a dangerous march toward what we call Nazism?----ew
I have no idea just what my personal choice would ... (show quote)


The problem of selective studies is that they only focus on what is supportive to one's stance.

Here's a factoid to keep in mind, old age is still the number one cause of death.

Even a "libertarian" can be ignorant when it comes to statistics. I, for one, prefer the study of Probabilities. It helps in Poker.

"Faddist" ? Indeed.

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Feb 3, 2022 07:24:59   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
Stephan G wrote:
The problem of selective studies is that they only focus on what is supportive to one's stance.

Here's a factoid to keep in mind, old age is still the number one cause of death.

Even a "libertarian" can be ignorant when it comes to statistics. I, for one, prefer the study of Probabilities. It helps in Poker.

"Faddist" ? Indeed.



Don't call him ignorant - you know he's right!!!

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Feb 3, 2022 07:57:36   #
Sirsnapalot Loc: Hammond, Louisiana
 
OldSchool-WI wrote:
I have no idea just what my personal choice would be if I had a city job around a lot of people. But as a libertarian (they exist in either party)-----I want the choice to be mine. Being retried and isolated---I have chosen to avoid the jab entirely and depend upon my immune system if it should be called upon. I am a health faddist about supplements. So no risky jabs for me. And the previous quotes about twisted statistics is right to the point. Hospitals are paid to include covid in some way on a death certificate--even though negligible as causation of death. All is a dangerous march toward what we call Nazism?----ew
I have no idea just what my personal choice would ... (show quote)



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Feb 3, 2022 07:58:42   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
robertjerl wrote:
Oh, so how come so many "break through" cases of people with 2+1 and masking. Some of them even had one of the earlier variants. And I see numerous reports of people having Covid twice or now even three times.

If it works, why isn't it working?

And masks:
The cloth ones are almost useless the weave of the cloth is so open compared to the size of the virus - "like trying to catch mosquitoes with chain link fence" by one researchers quote.
The blue surgical masks are about 10% effective according to a couple of studies reported.
The one good thing both do is catch "some" of what you cough or sneeze out in moist droplets big enough for the mask to filter. As one doctor put it "It keeps you from drooling into the patient's open incision.
The N95 masks do work fairly well but they are hard to breath through for long periods being almot 1/4 inch thick.
Especially after they get moist from your breath. People with certain problems, like my asthma, can't wear them for long without developing trouble breathing, headaches etc.

I do wear a mask when out around other people. I have a 3M made industrial/lab grade half face respirator with replaceable filter packs rated at P100. P=can be used breathing solvent fumes for up to 8 hours and the filters are good for 6 months or until they get clogged from the stuff they are filtering out. I wore it to get lab tests done today and the lab tech said "One of the doctors in the hospital wears one of those also." Back in the late spring of 2020 the first time I wore it to the hospital for a medical appointment a doctor in the hall stopped me and asked about it. Then said "I think I need one of those." It might be the same doctor as I was walking past the respiratory department at the time.

And my respirator is easier to breath in than an N95, especially for long periods.
Oh, so how come so many "break through" ... (show quote)


Infection is a function of the individual.

For around 60 years I subscribed to the "hygiene hypothesis", which holds that excessive sterilization leads to loss of immune function. Most of my life I have not spent much effort washing my hands and washing my food. I felt that people have to exercise their muscles, they have to exercise their minds. Why should they not have toe exercise their immune system? And it appeared to work for me. I did not get sick often. Even as a farmer working with manure, hand washing for me was pretty much a quick rinse and wipe off on my pants.

Then my wife died, and I found another one. The new wife has an MD and is a germaphobe. She washes her hands frequently, wears gloves to do things I would do with my bare hands, and tries to avoid germs in any way she can. She holds my old view to be nonsense and believes that the immune system is in the genes. I don't get sick doing what I used to do because I chose my parents well.

I have modified my position to "a good immune system is in the genes, but without exercise it will wither and disappear".

My wife got Covid. She was in bed for 3 days with a fever and body aches (no significant pulmonary problems). I got covid. I had a sore throat overnight.

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Feb 3, 2022 08:25:05   #
LCD
 
All it takes is one exposure. My wife and I caught it, we think, at a restaurant where everyone but the dinners wore masks. Particularly with Omicron you could have it, not show symptoms, and spread it in your everyday life.

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Feb 3, 2022 09:00:46   #
Lonnie77 Loc: Kennedale, Texas
 
What lock down? I worked every day.

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Feb 3, 2022 09:09:28   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Infection is a function of the individual.

For around 60 years I subscribed to the "hygiene hypothesis", which holds that excessive sterilization leads to loss of immune function. Most of my life I have not spent much effort washing my hands and washing my food. I felt that people have to exercise their muscles, they have to exercise their minds. Why should they not have toe exercise their immune system? And it appeared to work for me. I did not get sick often. Even as a farmer working with manure, hand washing for me was pretty much a quick rinse and wipe off on my pants.

Then my wife died, and I found another one. The new wife has an MD and is a germaphobe. She washes her hands frequently, wears gloves to do things I would do with my bare hands, and tries to avoid germs in any way she can. She holds my old view to be nonsense and believes that the immune system is in the genes. I don't get sick doing what I used to do because I chose my parents well.

I have modified my position to "a good immune system is in the genes, but without exercise it will wither and disappear".

My wife got Covid. She was in bed for 3 days with a fever and body aches (no significant pulmonary problems). I got covid. I had a sore throat overnight.
Infection is a function of the individual. br br ... (show quote)



I caught the CCP virus a year and a half ago. It was so mild I did not recognize that was what it was for several days, and it nearly was over. There were a number of symptoms, including loss of taste, but nothing of any real consequence. I took nothing - did nothing - for it, and it was gone in a week or less. At about the same time, my wife (who was stuck in Dumaguete for a year because of the lockdowns) had the virus, and was extremely sick for 4 or 5 days, but not telling me until later. She did not go to a doctor, and recovered, though I think she has occasional relapses in the sense of being more tired than usual without significant reason. Neither of us has had the Omicron – as far as we know.

Since she finally was able to return home to Baguio, just a year ago, she has been faithfully doing an hour of selective exercises daily, and is in absolutely great physical condition. She has added a lot of muscle, lost weight - and looks much better in all regards! People who have not seen her for a while don't even recognize her. Some athletes who were training here were asking her about her training regimen - without even knowing she actually was working out, it shows that much.

It probably is worth noting that for at least 40 years, during the middle of my life span, I had no reason to go to a doctor – for any reason - and I always have been very “healthy”. During that time, I almost daily was playing basketball, playing volleyball and practicing motocross. I was in shape!!! - then.

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City

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Feb 3, 2022 09:28:47   #
MikeG Loc: Northern Wisconsin
 
Great! Yet another venue for anti-vaxxers to spew disinformation, half truths, selective data and, most importantly, remind us just how rough, tough and independent they think they are. I personally would never mess with anyone who ends a sentence with 3 exclaimation points. 2 maybe, but never, ever with a 3 e.p. warrior.

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Feb 3, 2022 09:38:09   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
I don't like the term "lockdown."

If a disease is deadly and contagious, staying away from other people is a good idea. I don't need a study to tell me that. As the report says, it can be hard to differentiate between people voluntarily avoiding each other or a government mandated avoidance policy. Super-spreader events are called that for a good reason. Contagion does not work without some kind of contact.

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Feb 3, 2022 09:44:46   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Speaking of mortality, the US has a 63% higher death rate than other large, wealthy countries. I'm making this a separate post.

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Feb 3, 2022 09:55:56   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
MikeG wrote:
Great! Yet another venue for anti-vaxxers to spew disinformation, half truths, selective data and, most importantly, remind us just how rough, tough and independent they think they are. I personally would never mess with anyone who ends a sentence with 3 exclaimation points. 2 maybe, but never, ever with a 3 e.p. warrior.


Did you see somewhere in my post that I said I was against vaccines? (Though as it happens, I have been for many years, not just recently.) And if you are interested in the truth, the so-called "vaccines" are not, only those from China and Russia. And the "vaccines" potentially have ways of messing with you as yet unknown. You are free to take your chances if so desired. And can I help it if I like "exclaimation" points? -- used as a point of particular emphasis.

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Feb 3, 2022 09:58:57   #
Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI
 
I don't know what to make of the study, but there are countries that had stringent lockdowns + a great deal of compliance, and they did quite well with rates of Covid and mortality. It cannot be denied that the lockdowns here were quite porous.

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Feb 3, 2022 10:21:17   #
cytafex Loc: Clarksburg MA
 
Have friends and family who despite having vaccines and booster sick from Covid. Meanwhile no vaccines for me and remain Covid free. Now we have one person who can mandate without any citizen intervention and it may be George Orwell was off on dates but see some things happening now. At one point in Massachusetts the governor mandated $300 fine if caught in public w/o a mask. Some of the masks and how people wear them not very affective. Virus is smaller than materials used in most mask yet have numerous establishments baring those w/o mask from entering. I wonder what else will happen.

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Feb 3, 2022 10:32:53   #
Michael1079 Loc: Indiana
 
coullone wrote:
Well the lockdowns certainly worked in Australia, we have a faction of US or UK deaths per million here and our economy is growing faster than pre-Covid.
Quote from Oscar Wilde 'The are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' - not saying I agree but I like the quote!


Agree...the problem with data - scientific or otherwise - is that it can be manipulated to prove just about anything that the presenter/proponent desires to promote...

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Feb 3, 2022 10:46:36   #
JBRIII
 
We can all argue and/or collect different facts for ever. The truth will, if ever, only be known long after this is done or the new normal. Science is far from perfect, but does require careful studies with matched datasets to discover most things. For Covid that would mean somehow matching two populations treated differently, i.e., one group locked down, one not, one with masks, one without, one lockdown with masks, one lockdown without masks, etc., etc. All living in the same climate, population density, etc. Something obviously not possible or at least not practical. When all the data is in some conclusions should be possible, but somethings in life can't be easily duplicated. While it is true that some nations seem to have benefited in some ways from draconian measure, it isn't done yet. It is always possible and some are predicting this, that China has only put off the virus for now. They can't lock done forever and the virus will be waiting. There have already been several small island nations where this has happened.

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