Do raw images have more dynamic range than JPEG?
Dec 21, 2021 11:51:45 #
JamesCurran wrote:
That's not exactly true.
To be displayed on a screen, or printed out, an image must be converted to a bitmap. For most files, this is done automatically on the fly as it is opened. There is no reason the conversion has to go RAW -> JPG -> bitmap. If you have the proper converter installed on your computer, it can go directly from RAW -> bitmap to be displayed.
To be displayed on a screen, or printed out, an image must be converted to a bitmap. For most files, this is done automatically on the fly as it is opened. There is no reason the conversion has to go RAW -> JPG -> bitmap. If you have the proper converter installed on your computer, it can go directly from RAW -> bitmap to be displayed.
Dec 21, 2021 12:21:25 #
Basically all JPG files from your camera are processed in camera from RAW files so the answer is yes.
Dec 21, 2021 12:46:55 #
Just for clarity, RAW captures more DR than jpg format. It requires processing to extract that data from a RAW file, note not image.
jpg images are similar to Polaroid photos. There is limited processing that can be done.
--Bob
jpg images are similar to Polaroid photos. There is limited processing that can be done.
--Bob
Urnst wrote:
Do they? Thanks!
Dec 21, 2021 12:51:22 #
Dec 21, 2021 13:04:11 #
"...But, honestly, after switching to RAW I don't think I will ever go back to JPEG..."
All too true billnikon... And too funny that the naive still stand to guard the gates to protect their usage of .jpegs.
However like Bill Burkholder eloquently sharped... Many masters of the craft have come up the curve on how to fine-tune their vendors default .jpeg settings to better reflect their visual statement for high volume work. I personally know a very successful wedding photographer who shoots only .jpegs (however he's a published master of the craft).
Bottom Line? Are your clients pleased with your imagery? And become return clients?
Or more appropriately; How many posting in this thread besides Bill Burkholder have generated a significant revenue stream from their photographic endeavors?
Grown up little boys playing with their big boy toys...
Without a clue of what it's like to do continous 14 hour days on set to meet a client's expectations.
Cheers! and have a fabulous Holiday Season ahead!
All too true billnikon... And too funny that the naive still stand to guard the gates to protect their usage of .jpegs.
However like Bill Burkholder eloquently sharped... Many masters of the craft have come up the curve on how to fine-tune their vendors default .jpeg settings to better reflect their visual statement for high volume work. I personally know a very successful wedding photographer who shoots only .jpegs (however he's a published master of the craft).
Bottom Line? Are your clients pleased with your imagery? And become return clients?
Or more appropriately; How many posting in this thread besides Bill Burkholder have generated a significant revenue stream from their photographic endeavors?
Grown up little boys playing with their big boy toys...
Without a clue of what it's like to do continous 14 hour days on set to meet a client's expectations.
Cheers! and have a fabulous Holiday Season ahead!
Dec 21, 2021 13:06:54 #
Nicholas J DeSciose wrote:
Why converted to a JPEG? Not a PSD
You can't send someone a .PSD file and have them view it unless they have PS.
Browsers will not display .PSD files.
JPEG files are VERY transportable. They can even be included in Word documents.
Dec 21, 2021 13:36:24 #
burkphoto wrote:
JPEG files contain 256 bits (brightness levels) per color channel.
Raw files are at least 4096 bits, and sometimes 16,384 bits per color channel.
Raw files are at least 4096 bits, and sometimes 16,384 bits per color channel.
JPEG files contain 8 bits ( 256 brightness levels) per color channel.
Raw files are at least 12 bits (4096 brightness levels), and sometimes 14 bits (16,384 brightness levels) per color channel.
n bits translates to 2^n levels.
Dec 21, 2021 13:40:17 #
JamesCurran wrote:
JPEG files contain 8 bits ( 256 brightness levels) per color channel.
Raw files are at least 12 bits (4096 brightness levels), and sometimes 14 bits (16,384 brightness levels) per color channel.
n bits translates to 2^n levels.
Raw files are at least 12 bits (4096 brightness levels), and sometimes 14 bits (16,384 brightness levels) per color channel.
n bits translates to 2^n levels.
Oops! Yes, levels is the word I should have used. I was trying to translate FROM bits. Thanks.
Dec 21, 2021 14:40:25 #
Urnst
Loc: Brownsville, Texas
burkphoto wrote:
Oops! Yes, levels is the word I should have used. I was trying to translate FROM bits. Thanks.
Thanks to those who responded to my post. I learned a lot.
Dec 21, 2021 14:46:20 #
a6k
Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
joewade2 wrote:
Interesting points of view.
Different camars will present the same immage differently. Even when you try to set then the same.
The dynamic range of a sensor is ISO setting and sensor dependent. This dynamic range can be represented in 8 bits (JPEG) or 14 bits (RAW). 14 bits will have more information.
Please forgive me for over simplifying some of the technical detailes in the previous statements.
Different camars will present the same immage differently. Even when you try to set then the same.
The dynamic range of a sensor is ISO setting and sensor dependent. This dynamic range can be represented in 8 bits (JPEG) or 14 bits (RAW). 14 bits will have more information.
Please forgive me for over simplifying some of the technical detailes in the previous statements.
You have done many of us a favor here. The DR can go from below the noise threshold to fully saturated. More bits only means smaller steps in between. Raw may have more than 8 bits and jpg is limited to 8 bits. From dark zero to blown is sensor determined not format determined.
Dec 21, 2021 14:47:40 #
a6k
Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
burkphoto wrote:
Oops! Yes, levels is the word I should have used. I was trying to translate FROM bits. Thanks.
But the maximum and minimum values are not dependent on bits.
Dec 21, 2021 15:04:36 #
Longshadow, just a bit of information on psd files.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/the-best-ways-to-open-a-psd-file-without-photoshop/
--Bob
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/the-best-ways-to-open-a-psd-file-without-photoshop/
--Bob
Longshadow wrote:
You can't send someone a .PSD file and have them view it unless they have PS.
Browsers will not display .PSD files.
JPEG files are VERY transportable. They can even be included in Word documents.
Browsers will not display .PSD files.
JPEG files are VERY transportable. They can even be included in Word documents.
Dec 21, 2021 15:32:32 #
Q) Do raw images have more dynamic range than JPEG?
In theory not necessarily but in practice always by a gigantic margin.
Most JPG images are 8 bits per pixel per channel (RGB) or 24 bits which can represent 16,777,216 different colors. The JPG format can support 16 or 32 bits per pixel per channel, but its unusual to see it straight out of camera.
Canon raw is 14 bits per pixel per channel (RGB), so 42 bits can represent 4,398,046,511,104 different colors.
This additional amount of data increases dynamic range which can be very useful in restoring shadow and highlight detail in post processing.
You may occasionally run into banding in smooth gradients when a large area transitions from one similar color to another showing noticeable boundaries or contours where one similar color is adjacent to the next. In 8 bit, this can be noticeable but at higher pixel depths the eye cannot perceive it. This is rare straight out of the camera even for JPG because sensor noise hides what little there is to see. Post processing rounding errors when increasing shadow or highlight contrast can cause banding with 8 bit files, you can add a little noise to hide it.
Delta-E (dE) is a single number that represents the 'distance' between two colors in a color gamut. The idea is that a dE of 1.0 is the smallest color difference the human eye can see. Anything above 2 or 3 is noticeable even to an untrained eye. Worst case 8 bit delta e is a little under 1 so it's good enough. If you stretch it though in post processing a delta e above 2 or 3 is common.
In theory not necessarily but in practice always by a gigantic margin.
Most JPG images are 8 bits per pixel per channel (RGB) or 24 bits which can represent 16,777,216 different colors. The JPG format can support 16 or 32 bits per pixel per channel, but its unusual to see it straight out of camera.
Canon raw is 14 bits per pixel per channel (RGB), so 42 bits can represent 4,398,046,511,104 different colors.
This additional amount of data increases dynamic range which can be very useful in restoring shadow and highlight detail in post processing.
You may occasionally run into banding in smooth gradients when a large area transitions from one similar color to another showing noticeable boundaries or contours where one similar color is adjacent to the next. In 8 bit, this can be noticeable but at higher pixel depths the eye cannot perceive it. This is rare straight out of the camera even for JPG because sensor noise hides what little there is to see. Post processing rounding errors when increasing shadow or highlight contrast can cause banding with 8 bit files, you can add a little noise to hide it.
Delta-E (dE) is a single number that represents the 'distance' between two colors in a color gamut. The idea is that a dE of 1.0 is the smallest color difference the human eye can see. Anything above 2 or 3 is noticeable even to an untrained eye. Worst case 8 bit delta e is a little under 1 so it's good enough. If you stretch it though in post processing a delta e above 2 or 3 is common.
Dec 21, 2021 15:33:16 #
rmalarz wrote:
Longshadow, just a bit of information on psd files.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/the-best-ways-to-open-a-psd-file-without-photoshop/
--Bob
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/the-best-ways-to-open-a-psd-file-without-photoshop/
--Bob
Thanks, at least it can be done......
I have none of those programs and will not download (install) one just to view someone's .PSD file.
I'll tell them if they want me to view it, send it to me as a JPEG. If they made a .PSD, they can make a JPEG.
The world will not fall apart if I don't view it.
Dec 21, 2021 15:47:56 #
RightOnPhotography
Loc: Quebec,QC
rmalarz wrote:
Definitely. However, RAW is not an image file but information from the sensor.
--Bob
--Bob
Interesting. Image file in any format is not an image, but an information written in a certain code.
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