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Need CMYK Output for Print
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Oct 18, 2021 14:25:50   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
dmeyer wrote:
Aside from Shutterfly and Vistaprint, any suggestions, John?


Sorry, I do my own printing, so I'm not familiar with printing services to recommend them.

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 15:14:22   #
edrobinsonjr Loc: Boise, Idaho
 
Seems the printer should handle this conversion but... I have a freeware tool - Krita - that does the rgb to cmyk conversion with a couple of clicks.

Their site is https://krita.org/en/ . It has been around for some time and is pretty extensive tool set.

Ed

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 15:24:27   #
DebAnn Loc: Toronto
 
dmeyer wrote:
Here is one from the waterfall calendar sent to Vistaprint.


I have reviewed your image in Photoshop and PaintShop Pro and it appears to be perfectly fine. I think you should send Vistaprint a detailed note with the photo attached and ask them why it didn't print properly. A properly sized jpg should be fine. That's what I always send them and I haven't had any quality issues. Tell them that other customers have reported no issues with using jpgs.

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2021 15:40:30   #
Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.
 
dmeyer wrote:
I use Lightroom 6 to process my RAW images. (I do not have Photoshop.) I also manage my folders with Nikon ViewNX.
Last year I changed from Shutterfly to Vistaprint for my calendars, but was very disappointed with the resulting flat, dull images. I ended up with a credit, so this year I asked Vistaprint's customer service what I could do to get better images and was told to be sure I exported in CMYK and not sRGB. Now my goose seems to be cooked because I don't have that option in either program.
Is there any way to convert to CMYK without buying some new software?
I use Lightroom 6 to process my RAW images. (I do... (show quote)


With all the talk many basic or new to photography easily get lost in all the technobabble. So first, a simple enough question for the knowledgeable ones, what does the 'K' stand for in CMYK? Nice obscure question, which I will tell at the bottom of this.

What people want to know is what is the CMY and how it relates to the RGB. Well, many long years ago, many years before light meters existed, them boys over at Eastman Kodak had a hostile take over by Dr. Mees. A brilliant man, who was both bright and practical. He got his best togeather and tackled some real problems. One was the fact that filters came from some smart scientist name Wratten, all designated by numbers, which most common man did not understand and could no remember. So he and the boys gave the important filters letters. Like the Red tri color filter (Wratten number 25) and called it capitol 'A'. Then the rest of the Tri color filters got letters like 'B' and 'C' and so on. All of this to simplify all that color stuff.

Now, most everybody was doing B&W photography and only the grand masters were do the number one color process call Tri Color Separation, a vary stable and rich type of color. Then them Nazis came along and that Nazi company Agfa was working on perfecting color photography. Now Mees was no fool and Kodak got to work on many things long before Agfa, and so we saw the introduction of a film like Kodachrome long before Agfa made their color negative film.

Now that guy Mees, well he realized that the common man (photographers) would have trouble with the whole 'color' thing, so Kodak introduced a type of mind control color theory, trouble was it did not catch on with the not so smart photographers. This was pre World war Two think, but it is just as applicable today, perhaps even more so due to the new digital world and all the talk of color systems. See, nothing is really new, it just the old repackaged.

So here it is, real and practical color theory from the past by way of the great Yellow father:
Red Cadillacs by GM.

Stupidly simple, follows the law of K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid!)

Explanation (for the slow witted):
Red Cadillacs is Red and Cyan
"BY" is Blue and Yellow
GM (General Motors) Green and Magenta

These are the complementary pairings. The cancel each other out, creating neutral density.

There is more but another day for that.

So with Red Cadillacs by GM you have all color at your finger tips at any time and in any situation. That Mess guy was pretty sharp and so Kodak!

So now, what is this cmyk stuff. Well, c is cyan and its separation filter was/is Red REMEMBER "Red Cadillacs by GM" and m is magenta is green and that is the Tri color filter that governs all green/magenta. Finally, the yellow is the unit associated with the BLUE filter (OBSCURE information, shoot a tri color negative with only the Tri Color Blue and you will get a junk negative, you must put an additional Wratten 2B UV filter with the Blue Tri Color or the UV passed trough will create an unwanted cast in your color image).

And so you have the dyes used for printing, CMY, BUT! it won't come out looking good, seems the shadows will be messed up, lacking in density and with a slight cast. What to do? Well here is where all the crap you have been wading through comes to the surface. That fourth letter 'K', what does that mean? Well, remember way back when Kodak was making things super easy to remember about filters? Well the most commonly used filter for general photography was a simple YELLOW filter, WAIT FOR IT!, Kodak designated the yellow filter the letter 'K'. More? Well one looks at the primary filter in the Tri Color group, that is the RED filter and what ever the exposure was for the Red Tricolor (Wratten 25), you use the same exposure MINUS three stops and expose another negative through the yellow filter (Wratten #8) and this becomes the general gray density for the Tri Color Separation when making a positive print from the FOUR exposed negatives. (It is this image being adjusted by different printing methods).

See, it wasn't all that esoteric as some would have you believe!
The real esoteric part is the fact that there are not six colors, there are only two colors RED and CYAN. From these two the other four colors are derived. Now that is soooo esoteric that I did not say anything till this point! You 'see' warm (Red) and cool (Cyan) colors, and so also feel these colors as warm or cool, that is really how color works!

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:10:37   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
DebAnn wrote:
It looks good on my calibrated screen. If you could send me the image in a private message, I'll take a look at it in Photoshop to see if there are any issues. Which paper did you choose for the calendars (or identify which of the calendars on Vistaprint's website you chose). The choice of paper would have an effect on the images too.


I always have any printed material done on low to medium gloss (satin, etc.), depending on what is offered. Glad you are able to get enough details from the compressed JPEG image. Thank you for offering your help and taking a look on your monitor!

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:13:32   #
DebAnn Loc: Toronto
 
dmeyer wrote:
I always have any printed material done on low to medium gloss (satin, etc.), depending on what is offered. Are you able to tell much from the compressed JPEG image? I believe you can download the image from this post. Thank you for offering your help!


See my reply further up the stream of comments.
Deb

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:16:01   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
DebAnn wrote:
See my reply further up the stream of comments.
Deb


LOL, we are crossing paths!!!

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2021 16:18:04   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
edrobinsonjr wrote:
Seems the printer should handle this conversion but... I have a freeware tool - Krita - that does the rgb to cmyk conversion with a couple of clicks.

Their site is https://krita.org/en/ . It has been around for some time and is pretty extensive tool set.

Ed


Thank you, Ed--that looks like a fun program to dig into!! Hopefully, I will have more success figuring it out than PS.

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:21:44   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
DebAnn wrote:
I have reviewed your image in Photoshop and PaintShop Pro and it appears to be perfectly fine. I think you should send Vistaprint a detailed note with the photo attached and ask them why it didn't print properly. A properly sized jpg should be fine. That's what I always send them and I haven't had any quality issues. Tell them that other customers have reported no issues with using jpgs.


I definitely want to pursue the conversation with them, but sometimes I have had good-techie help and then not-so-good-techie help--never know who I'll get, lol.

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:31:28   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
Timmers wrote:
With all the talk many basic or new to photography easily get lost in all the technobabble. So first, a simple enough question for the knowledgeable ones, what does the 'K' stand for in CMYK? Nice obscure question, which I will tell at the bottom of this.

What people want to know is what is the CMY and how it relates to the RGB. Well, many long years ago, many years before light meters existed, them boys over at Eastman Kodak had a hostile take over by Dr. Mees. A brilliant man, who was both bright and practical. He got his best togeather and tackled some real problems. One was the fact that filters came from some smart scientist name Wratten, all designated by numbers, which most common man did not understand and could no remember. So he and the boys gave the important filters letters. Like the Red tri color filter (Wratten number 25) and called it capitol 'A'. Then the rest of the Tri color filters got letters like 'B' and 'C' and so on. All of this to simplify all that color stuff.

Now, most everybody was doing B&W photography and only the grand masters were do the number one color process call Tri Color Separation, a vary stable and rich type of color. Then them Nazis came along and that Nazi company Agfa was working on perfecting color photography. Now Mees was no fool and Kodak got to work on many things long before Agfa, and so we saw the introduction of a film like Kodachrome long before Agfa made their color negative film.

Now that guy Mees, well he realized that the common man (photographers) would have trouble with the whole 'color' thing, so Kodak introduced a type of mind control color theory, trouble was it did not catch on with the not so smart photographers. This was pre World war Two think, but it is just as applicable today, perhaps even more so due to the new digital world and all the talk of color systems. See, nothing is really new, it just the old repackaged.

So here it is, real and practical color theory from the past by way of the great Yellow father:
Red Cadillacs by GM.

Stupidly simple, follows the law of K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid!)

Explanation (for the slow witted):
Red Cadillacs is Red and Cyan
"BY" is Blue and Yellow
GM (General Motors) Green and Magenta

These are the complementary pairings. The cancel each other out, creating neutral density.

There is more but another day for that.

So with Red Cadillacs by GM you have all color at your finger tips at any time and in any situation. That Mess guy was pretty sharp and so Kodak!

So now, what is this cmyk stuff. Well, c is cyan and its separation filter was/is Red REMEMBER "Red Cadillacs by GM" and m is magenta is green and that is the Tri color filter that governs all green/magenta. Finally, the yellow is the unit associated with the BLUE filter (OBSCURE information, shoot a tri color negative with only the Tri Color Blue and you will get a junk negative, you must put an additional Wratten 2B UV filter with the Blue Tri Color or the UV passed trough will create an unwanted cast in your color image).

And so you have the dyes used for printing, CMY, BUT! it won't come out looking good, seems the shadows will be messed up, lacking in density and with a slight cast. What to do? Well here is where all the crap you have been wading through comes to the surface. That fourth letter 'K', what does that mean? Well, remember way back when Kodak was making things super easy to remember about filters? Well the most commonly used filter for general photography was a simple YELLOW filter, WAIT FOR IT!, Kodak designated the yellow filter the letter 'K'. More? Well one looks at the primary filter in the Tri Color group, that is the RED filter and what ever the exposure was for the Red Tricolor (Wratten 25), you use the same exposure MINUS three stops and expose another negative through the yellow filter (Wratten #8) and this becomes the general gray density for the Tri Color Separation when making a positive print from the FOUR exposed negatives. (It is this image being adjusted by different printing methods).

See, it wasn't all that esoteric as some would have you believe!
The real esoteric part is the fact that there are not six colors, there are only two colors RED and CYAN. From these two the other four colors are derived. Now that is soooo esoteric that I did not say anything till this point! You 'see' warm (Red) and cool (Cyan) colors, and so also feel these colors as warm or cool, that is really how color works!
With all the talk many basic or new to photography... (show quote)


Geez, now I have a headache!
Actually, I had a fair idea of the distinction between RGB and CMYK from this link. https://www.boingographics.com/blog/why-do-i-need-to-know-the-difference-between-rgb-and-cmyk#:~:text=RGB%20is%20an%20additive%20color,a%20combination%20of%20colored%20inks.

But you certainly added a very interesting backstory!!

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 16:49:53   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
dmeyer wrote:
Here is one from the waterfall calendar sent to Vistaprint.


Serene and gorgeous 💞🌀💞🌀💞

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2021 18:20:00   #
dmeyer Loc: Marion, NC
 
joecichjr wrote:
Serene and gorgeous 💞🌀💞🌀💞


Thanks, Joe. I do love my waterfall adventures!

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 18:34:45   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
dmeyer wrote:
Thanks, Joe. I do love my waterfall adventures!


I'm with Deb and Joe, it looks fine here too - online. When I do printing via Adorama / Printique.com, I make some slight adjustments to the exposure / brightness of the image file for the target paper. But, I don't know that is actionable help for your situation.

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 19:04:20   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
I've been converting RGB images to cmyk for commercial calendars and books for the past 20 years. The biggest mistake that most people make is that their monitors are set to bright. EG 6500k 120 cd/m2. For good results calibrate to 5800K 80 cd/m2. Soft proofing and converting to the printers profile is also critically important. The only free software for conversions that I know off is called Cyan. http://cyan.fxarena.net/

Reply
Oct 18, 2021 19:33:08   #
JoeM845
 
dmeyer wrote:
... I asked Vistaprint's customer service what I could do to get better images and was told to be sure I exported in CMYK and not sRGB....
That surprises me.

Vistaprint's web site says "Rest assured, we own a state-of-the-art printing facility that matches on-screen colors (RGB) to printed colors (CMYK) as close as possible." [see: https://www.vistaprint.com/customer-care/customer-care-center-subject.aspx?SubjectId=60&GP=10%2f18%2f2021+19%3a17%3a30&GPS=6082871693&GNF=0].

Washed out colors can be a symptom of an image in adobeRGB being treated as an image in sRGB. You might double-check to make sure that you exported it in sRGB and not one of the other RGBs. I don't know if LR includes the profile in the export or it Vistaprint checks the profile - a failure on either would result in an image that looked less colorful.

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