Lithium Batteries and Fire
Oct 16, 2021 10:58:07 #
I am a EE that worked in the Seismic Equipment industry. We were making some of the first single channel seismic recording systems.
They were powered by lithium battery packs. The first few years we had many fires. The fire alarm would go off all 1600 employees would exit the building and wait for the fire department to come and verify it was safe to go back in.
Never got out of control due to precautions. She eventual solution was an electronic ckt in each battery cell that monitored the temperature of every cell. Any rise in temperature or current and a fuse would blow and disable that cell.
Tested these in on old abandoned water tower on the property. Blew up many batteries until we made it fool proof.
Eventually no battery fires. Some battery packs were huge having maybe 100 cells.
When I retired we were making 20 of 30 thousand at a time no fires.
They were powered by lithium battery packs. The first few years we had many fires. The fire alarm would go off all 1600 employees would exit the building and wait for the fire department to come and verify it was safe to go back in.
Never got out of control due to precautions. She eventual solution was an electronic ckt in each battery cell that monitored the temperature of every cell. Any rise in temperature or current and a fuse would blow and disable that cell.
Tested these in on old abandoned water tower on the property. Blew up many batteries until we made it fool proof.
Eventually no battery fires. Some battery packs were huge having maybe 100 cells.
When I retired we were making 20 of 30 thousand at a time no fires.
Oct 16, 2021 11:06:23 #
Had a 1951 Ford F-3 pickup that had the gas tank in the cab behind the seat back. sounds dangerous today, but no one gave it a thought in the 1950s.
Oct 16, 2021 11:09:22 #
tmehrkam wrote:
I am a EE that worked in the Seismic Equipment ind... (show quote)
Some modern LI Ion batteries have a built in thermistor with an output to monitor temperature. If it has 3-4 wires/terminals, it’s likely for the internal thermistor.
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Oct 16, 2021 12:37:57 #
I once had a lithium battery pack explode when I was charging it with a generic charger. Fortunately i was home and it did not catch anything else on fire. Now I always use a charger that is designed to go with the particular battery pack. When I charge my drone batteries I put them in supposedly fireproof pouches closed by big Velcro, in a box also closed by Velcro, in an area of my garage unlikely to catch anything on fire.
Oct 16, 2021 13:40:32 #
skylinefirepest
Loc: Southern Pines, N.C.
Re-kindles are rarely because the fire department didn't put the fire out...usually it's because of a secondary factor. The batteries in electric cars are not considered out until they have been doused for over an hour and then the wrecker operator is still supposed to park the car separate from combustibles or other cars. Nasty little buggers and I personally don't intend to ever own an electric vehicle.
Oct 16, 2021 14:13:27 #
BassmanBruce wrote:
Due to physics, powerful and safe don’t usually fit comfortably in the same sentence.
But we can keep trying.
But we can keep trying.
Yep. Think: Lithium = electric gasoline
Oct 16, 2021 14:23:35 #
In California, more and more homes are resorting to lithium ion batteries (ie. Tesla power packs) to store electricity in case our power is cut off due to fire danger by our public utility company. Has anyone heard of home fires started by these? If so, please provide a source for this info. I know of Tesla cars that were being charged causing fires but can't find info on these home batteries starting fires.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:05:30 #
I was planning on installing a 60 Amp 230v outlet in my garage for a future plug in hybrid when we buy a new car. After my recent experience, I may go ahead, but any charging will be done outside the carnage at a safe distance from my house using a long cable.
Oct 16, 2021 15:42:12 #
TriX wrote:
I was planning on installing a 60 Amp 230v outlet in my garage for a future plug in hybrid when we buy a new car. After my recent experience, I may go ahead, but any charging will be done outside the carnage at a safe distance from my house using a long cable.
We put in the outlet in our garage at the same time we put on solar panels and 3 Tesla power packs (see photo, maybe not such a wise thing to do?) but have yet to buy a plug in hybrid or electric car. Which one are you thinking of?
Oct 16, 2021 16:05:54 #
ricardo00 wrote:
We put in the outlet in our garage at the same time we put on solar panels and 3 Tesla power packs (see photo) but have yet to buy a plug in hybrid or electric car. Which one are you thinking of?
Don’t know yet - will probably be another few years since we’re retired and only drive maybe 5K miles/year each. I have a 15 year old Mercedes and my wife has a 13 year old Lexus (with 55K miles), so in a few years, we’ll probably drop down to a single plug in hybrid - we’ll see what’s available then. I’m not nearly ready to give up my IC engine Mercedes yet
Oct 16, 2021 16:32:11 #
Implantable defibrillators are made with lithium iodide batterys. They MUST be removed before a person is cremated. Reason is that the crematorium will be blown up by the explosion caused by the battery when overheated by the "oven". I have one of the original devices that was removed. It's part of my explant collection.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:35:32 #
Current Lithium ion batteries are a compromise. A bad one but the only option available. Apparently the Chinese have perfected a solid non-flammable electrolyte. That's what burns. There's currently lots of work on solid non-flammable electrolytes both in US universities and industrial labs. There's even work on lithium metal batteries which automatically have twice the capacity of lithium ion and presumably would have a solid non-flammable electroyte.
Oct 16, 2021 17:25:40 #
ddgm
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario & Fort Myers, FL
jerryc41 wrote:
I'd be concerned about fumes and smoking. Tanks weren't totally sealed like today's tanks.
The filler neck and cap was outside the cab. At that time in my life I was a smoker and young, I never gave it a seconds thought. The good old days.
Oct 16, 2021 19:12:14 #
In the early days all pickups or at least most had gas tanks behind the driver's seat. Dad's 62 Ford was like that. He had a newer Chevy with one and I had a 76 ford with one behind the seat and another behind the bed. Valve in the cab selected which one to use.
Oct 16, 2021 21:28:25 #
jerryc41 wrote:
Not necessarily the greatest risk with smoking. Just sayin'.I'd be concerned about fumes and smoking. Tanks weren't totally sealed like today's tanks.
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