danniel Loc: North Port, Florida

In a previous post I had mentioned that I had been away a while because I had been to doctors and hospitals and I had made a comment that doctors made too much money lol. Of well there's a lot of us that believe that they make too much money I think we want to believe that because we certainly don't make that much money in most cases but I am fully aware of the immense amount of expenditures not just for college and all the schooling that comes after that but while in a clinic or hospital environment that nurses equipment all have to be paid for outsourcing to Labs insurance etc etc.

So although I may just that doctors make too much money the fact of the matter is they make good money and too much and not enough or of course different perspectives
Doctor's here in the last few years have started booking six to eight months in advance.
The surgeon I have been waiting to see I am still going to have to wait another 4 months for just to shake his hand and say hello but in the meantime I have to allow another less qualified in my opinion and by result surgeon work on me in the meantime.
And of course there's always the waiting time be here promptly at 10:00 a.m. but yet at 10:45 you're still in the waiting room waiting for your 10:00 a.m. appointment LOL and I'm sure we have all experienced that.
So although we would like to think doctors make too much they probably make what they deserve considering sleepless nights patients they care about being woke up at 1:00 a.m. for an emergency surgery not to mention all the other costs that are involved with being a doctor.
The conversation about doctors got pulled away by another member into a discussion about people that should or should not be in this country working and taking jobs away from people that were born or are citizens.
As I stated there I have never lost a job or missed work because of anyone else because I worked in a very specialized field in my job was pretty well secured.
But it is my opinion that if you are going to reap the benefits of this country the USA you should also be putting into this country such as paying your taxes abiding by the laws I think that's to be expected at least by me.
I am not a racist I am not a bigot at least as far as I am aware LOL. But there is an opportunity to put into the kitty when you take out it's no different than bingo at the church you pay for a chance to win and those winnings go back to pay the winners so yeah I guess it is different after all I'm rambling I really am terrible at this but I will just say if you're a citizen I don't care what your nationality is you should be able to work here without being harassed you should be able to work here and earn a fair wage and not a cut rate wage that's so many employers try to get away with under the table.
I realize that I was digging my grave trying to explain something and rather than go six feet down I'm probably around the 240 foot market this point which may get me banned from hedgehog I certainly hope not because I love this place and I love the people here and I have learned so much but I opened my mouth once and I felt I needed to open it wider so I could insert both feet properly :-)
Hey folks crazy old man's going to go away now you all be safe out there please be careful and be safe you may or may not believe in this virus but rest assured it does believe in you :-)
Peace..
Oh and to add I was not born in the United States but I am now a citizen and have been for 67 years. I would not live anywhere else.

Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL

Congratulations on your citizenship and thank you for being willing to undergo the requirements to be one. So many 'immigrants' aren't.

Everything you said is true, or has been true at various times for me. At ages 74 and 75, my wife and I are in the 'frequent flier' phase of our lives when it comes to medical care. Two times in the past couple of years I have not given a rat's backside what doctors make. The first, when my wife fell in our kitchen and fractured the back of her skull on the tile floor. Fortunately the bleeding inside her skull stopped before surgery was necessary, but none the less, the guy was there, ready to operate. The second, when I was having a stent placed after having a heart attack. It was late in the evening, but my cardiologist had me in the cath lab within a half hour of my arriving at the E.R. Of course, that (lucky me) was before the anti-vaxers were occupying all the E.R. beds.

These people have spent countless hours and only God knows how much money to learn their art. I have never once felt compelled to look for a cheaper doctor. Medicare and good insurance mitigate the financial pain a bit. Picture yourself deathly ill in Nairobi or some other underdeveloped third world hole and envision the kind of medical care you are likely to find there.

I do, however, agree with you about the futility of having an appointment. I just try to make them for right after lunch before they've had to get way behind.

P.S.; Unless you always fly first class, the next time you are herded aboard an airplane like part of the cattle going to the meat packing plant, remember that you probably chose this flight because it was the cheapest fare listed.

danniel Loc: North Port, Florida

Well being a human being I do not fly I leave that to the birds but being a human being I photographed those little silly things that do fly :-) from my vantage point safely on this Good Earth :-)

danniel Loc: North Port, Florida

Funny thing though about those anti-vaxxers.
I found out that neither my in-home nurse and in-home doctor haven been vaccinated.
And they found out that I no longer had any use for them whatsoever. LOL

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

The problems also have to do with changes in the way hospitals operate - due to financial choices brought about by Insurance companies in part moving many things to outpatient treatment. Which for many things worked great but others (a pandemic) not so much. Advances in medicine also had a part, things that used to involve time in hospital were suddenly one or two day as opposed to a week or more. So the number of hospitals and beds went down.

1975 The US had 1.5 million hospital beds in 7156 hospitals
2019 The US had 919,000 hospital beds in 6090 hospitals (up from 5524 in 2015)

Now keep in mind that a certain % of those hospitals and beds are specialty like psychiatric units, rehab units etc. which aren't really ideal for something like Covid-19. And though the number of doctors in the US has gone from 219K+ in 1949 to over 1 million today many of those are specialists, and often in fields that didn't exist in 1949. Others are retired, in research or not active due to their own health problems so total active physicians in 2019 was almost 939K but only 620K plus are active general MDs.

And yes Medical School (and Pre-Med) is expensive, not even close to an easy program and extremely stressful on the student and family. Due to not being in one of the special categories our daughter only got $500 a quarter "Middle Class" scholarship. Well she also missed out because she started UCLA as an International Business major* and switched to Pre-Med at the end of her first quarter. So we paid the freight for Pre-Med, well over $100K plus a bunch of student loans. Now she is at the University of Virginia in her third year and piling up student debt at a great rate. Last year she decided the remote classes etc. were not nearly as good as pre-covid (even though they got full credit) so for most of the year she switched out of regular classes and worked as a research assistant for a professor in the Medical School. As a result she changed from class of '22 to class of '23 but got her name on a published research paper (her second, she got on one at UCLA also) and an evaluation from the head of research saying she was among the top 1% of graduate researchers he had ever worked with. So it will be an extra year before we can call her "Doctor". And several years before her education is fully finished as she is aiming at Reconstructive Orthopedic Surgery.

*She had so many college credits from International Baccalaureate, AP and college classes while attending a Middle College High School (on a college campus and she took a max load of college classes with special permission in addition to HS classes) that after less than a full year at UCLA she was made a Senior.

Yes, I am bored and indulging in some proud Dad bragging. Apologies to anyone I bored and to the OP over using his thread to post this.

scubadoc Loc: Sarasota, FL

[quote=danniel]Funny thing though about those anti-vaxxers.
I found out that neither my in-home nurse and in-home doctor haven been vaccinated.
And they found out that I no longer had any use for them whatsoever. LOL]

An otherwise intelligent friend of mine, who happens to be a malpractice attorney, went to see his doc about being vaccinated against Covid-19. This doc, who has a good reputation in our community, advised him to not get the jab, but instead recommended Ivermectin, zinc, and hydroxychloroquine. I also happen to be a doc and when he told me this, I really blew my lid. I told him to find a new doc and to get the vaccine as soon as he could find an available time slot. He did listen to me, to my relief. He is not suing his doc though. My friend and his doc do seem to walk listing to the right side.

Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL

Good move.

danniel Loc: North Port, Florida

Nothing wrong with being proud when it's deserved such as in your case and hers congrats.
When I was 21 I was actually offered a scholarship to veterinary college to become a veterinarian and I loved animals I've been trading animals since I was younger and you know I was just having so much fun I just didn't want to be bothered tuition back then was about 28 to 34,000 it's well over $120,000 now still I did spend time as a surgical assistant 6 years in a vet clinic and I enjoyed it but I'm glad I did not make a living at it

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Well she did give my field, teaching, a try between Pre-med and Med School. At the end of her first week as a long term sub in Science she walked in the door looking like she had ridden a tornado through a hurricane and said "How did YOU make it 35 years without committing mass murder?" I can have a bit of a temper at times.
Our oldest also tried teaching for a while and he went for law school (degree in Mediation) and then the Army for 6 years (combat engineer) and now is still in the Reserves as Civil Affairs taking every active duty thing that comes along and works part time for the Red Cross and volunteers for Team Rubicon in disaster relief.
TR actually helped him train and get certified as a heavy equipment operator but they decided to use him as advanced survey and planning and in logistics. He is still trying to talk them into letting him play with the big toys instead.
Jasmine followed her big brother and actually did a couple of deployments with TR before she finished her first year at medical school. One was a week in Houston after Harvey - her "tribe"(what TR people call their teams) helped keep an old folks home going and cleaned it out etc. after it partly flooded during Harvey. Michael was there mapping and planning things while Harvey was still there and Jasmine and her tribe arrived just as he was leaving. Then when she and my wife drove cross country to get her to the University of Virginia Medical School they stayed with different people she had worked with in Houston along the way.

pdsdville Loc: Midlothian, Tx

Doctors don't make anywhere near what most people think. The government restrictions for Medicare payments radiate down to almost everything concerned with medicine because that is the maximum that insurance companies will pay. Just look at your EOB's if you don't believe me.

mhdt64 Loc: Tampa, FL

My nephew is a doctor. He says he can charge whatever he wants for a procedure, but will have to accept whatever Medicare pays or what the Insurance company contract says he can bill, and this is usually much less. The amount you can bill the patient separately is also restricted.

KillroyII Loc: Middle Georgia

I am home recovering from surgery... which will take a long time and I am having some side effects that suck; however, I don’t care if my neurosurgeon makes a million dollars an hour... he is worth it. Also, think about all the cost that doctors fee is covering... facility, personnel (some you see, some you don’t), equipment, insurance... and it goes on. Try to balance the books when you run a business and it will open your eyes on the costs.

wrangler5 Loc: Missouri

My brother in law has been an orthopedic surgeon for going on 40 years. He's been saying for many years that his personal income has been static, although the amount he bills has been going up. As others have noted, you only get paid what the insurance company says you get paid. And for years he has had to employ 2 full time staff just to fill out the insurance claim forms - insurance companies look for ANY flaw in a filing to delay or deny an insurance payment, so you have to have reasonably talented people do what ought to be routine clerical work. And those people are expensive.

JimBart Loc: Western Michigan

The majority of physicians are not in an independent practice like many of us believe but are rather employees of the hospital their clinic operates in conjunction with. Their salaries and benefits are determined by the hospital in addition to the hospital and Medicare telling them the maximum time they can spend with a patient. The hospital determines if they want to keep a physician or terminate them annually. I know this for a fact as my wife and I have been forced to find 4 new specialist physicians due to cost reduction measures by the local hospital.
Those independent physicians are facing cost reduction measures of their own by minimizing staff and choosing patients due to Obamacare and Medicare mandates…. Who you can see and what procedures are performed and up to what age I am told.

danniel Loc: North Port, Florida

I am fortunate or and unfortunate depending upon how you look at it to be at such a low income and so far below the poverty level that I have Medicaid qmb which pays my co-pays my dividends and my deductibles but the Medicare pays the other parts but I understand that the doctors have to bill what Medicare and Medicaid will pay and I have looked at my receipts and what Medicare summarizes and what they charge and what Medicare pays is two different worlds all together I've actually seen situations where the anesthesiologist gets paid far more than the actual surgeon so yes it's a terribly unfair system to the doctors who spent all them years in school and in ways it's also unfair to the Medicare recipients who get put on the far end of the list because they do not have private insurance that will pay better dividends for the procedures
I have several friends that work for different doctors and dentists and surgeon and a GP and they assure me that it's not supposed to happen that way but it does simply because everybody needs to get paid :-) so I can't blame them and I just live with the fact that I'm going to be on the end of the list in some cases not all but some and that's the way it's going to go. At least they're willing to accept Medicare / Medicaid