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New To Raw…Where To Start?
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Sep 2, 2021 13:22:35   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
azted wrote:
I started with the free version of Capture One, and have now purchased the Pro version. It is a relatively easy to understand software. But then again I was previously using "Photos" on my iMac. So if you ever eddited any of your jpeg files, it is basically the same thing. I would recommend Capture One as some of the pro's are now using it over Photoshop.


This brings up an interesting point for Mac users only.

Apple puts a complete set of raw profiles for current cameras into their operating system. The now defunct Apple Aperture used that. Photos can use it. But the best cheap tool to make use it is a $40 plug-in for Photos called Raw Power, available in the Apple App Store. It's written by some of the same folks who wrote Aperture when they worked for Apple. And it also works as a stand-alone application.

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Sep 2, 2021 13:39:38   #
Urnst Loc: Brownsville, Texas
 
Longshadow wrote:
Okay, I be igmorant. I don't feel bad...



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Sep 2, 2021 14:10:09   #
bigguytf
 
If you camera will allow it, start by taking pictures that will record on you memory card in both JPEG and RAW. Take some of your better pictures in JPEG and work with them in raw also. Once you begin to get the feel of it, you may decide to do more raw if you like it.

Depending on the type of shooting you do, you will probably use both down the line. I shoot sports, JPEG works better in that field for me. In my other stuff, I shoot RAW.

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Sep 2, 2021 14:31:10   #
redlegfrog
 
GeneinChi wrote:
I’ve decided to dip my toe into shooting raw. Having never done this, I’m looking for suggestions that can ease me into pp and grow from there. Please keep in mind I’m a beginner.
Thanks in advance.

Gene


I have a couple of suggestions. First off Keep it simple.
when I got started I tried too many apps at the same time and it just added to the confusion. Second get Photoscape X, Its free and they do a really good job of making things simple.
You still have to deal with learning the new lingo, you can't escape that but they have lots of helps to get you going.
After you've got comfortable with Photoscape X it will make shopping the $$$ programs easier.

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Sep 2, 2021 14:44:29   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
GeneinChi wrote:
I’ve decided to dip my toe into shooting raw. Having never done this, I’m looking for suggestions that can ease me into pp and grow from there. Please keep in mind I’m a beginner.
Thanks in advance.

Gene


Gene, I would suggest you start with the full Photoshop/Bridge/Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) program. Using ACR to edit your RAW files is not nearly as difficult as you might think. It is intuitive and there are just a few important sliders to use at first. You will catch on much more quickly than you might think and after that, there is no limit to what you can do.

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Sep 2, 2021 15:06:20   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Abo wrote:
100%

Contact Elizabeth Allen and Sophie Triantaphillidou and ask; "What does RAW"
stand for.

They will either say (if they are honest) "We don't know" or
"it does not stand for anything... it means raw as in not cooked".


And it takes less effort to type than "unprocessed image file"

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Sep 2, 2021 15:38:16   #
Genessi Loc: SoCal
 
Samy’s camera is having in on line class it cost but that might be helpful.

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Sep 2, 2021 16:06:18   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
Just no.

If there's a RAW versus JPEG dichotomy that's only because most cameras offer either or as output options.

It most certainly is also an ease of use issue. One reason to shoot raw is to reduce time post processing as well as reduce time and effort behind the camera. Shooting RAW is basically easier if you're going to hold both final output images to the same IQ standard.

The dichotomy you're identifying is a raster versus parametric editor difference. And you're very dated in your response. It used to be that raster editors were necessary for any kind of substantial healing/cloning work which doesn't require JPEGs it requires a processed (typically) RGB image -- could just as easily be a TIFF file.

Times have changed and although a raster editor is still required for major changes like big object replacement/removal and multiple image combination, the newer parametric raw processors now do a very good job with more basic cloning/healing work. In the image below the young man was removed on the left and goose poop cleaned up in the foreground using the parametric raw processor and avoiding the raster editor entirely which adds the advantage of a 100% non-destructive raw workflow versus a destructive raw workflow using the raster editor.
Just no. br br If there's a RAW versus JPEG dicho... (show quote)



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Sep 2, 2021 16:12:00   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Abo wrote:


Beautiful 💞👁️💞

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Sep 2, 2021 16:14:20   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Okay, seriously, you have a lot of good advice here, along with some distractions and entertaining silliness.

One thing I'd ask you to consider:

We can help much better as a community if we know:

> Camera Model you use

> Whether the camera has software available for it from the manufacturer's website (usually found at [manufacturer URL]/support/downloads, or similar)

> Whether you have edited any JPEG files previously, and if so, the software you used

> Which mainstream computer platform (Mac or Windows) you are using

Generally, here are a few observations:

Raw file editing's main advantage is that you start out with more dynamic range, as in recording 12 to 15 stops of brightness instead of chopping out the middle 5-6 stops of that brightness recorded when the camera makes a JPEG. When YOU get to pick which tones to include in your image, you have a lot more chance of getting an image or a print that satisfies your taste.

Raw data files are sort of like EXPOSED but UNPROCESSED color negative film. But they have one key distinction in that regard: Raw files can NEVER, EVER be altered! They remain the same, unaltered data. You can "start over" and develop them differently an infinite number of times. You can erase them, but you cannot overwrite them with edits.

Raw files include at least three things: 1) raw data, digitized from the sensor's analog output 2) EXIF data, the same as you find in a JPEG file and 3) a tiny JPEG preview image that is exactly the same as what the camera did, or would have, generated if you saved a JPEG in the camera at the same time.

IMPORTANT: The JPEG preview image is processed using all the menu settings in the camera. If you have never changed these, they are manufacturer defaults. If you adjusted sharpness, contrast, saturation, hue, "picture style," white balance, dynamic range compensation, etc., then the preview will contain the effects of those menu changes.

When you open a raw file in the CAMERA MANUFACTURER'S software, that software first displays the 8-bit preview JPEG. Then it processes the raw data the same way the camera did, using the recipe in the EXIF data, but as a 16-bit file. At that point, you can edit it and export it as something else (usually some flavor of TIFF or JPEG).

When you open a raw file in something like Adobe Lightroom CLASSIC, the same thing happens at first, but the conversion to 16-bits is entirely different. It is based on whatever default camera profile you have set *in the software.* That can be Adobe's default profile, or your own modification of that, or a camera profile you picked up from someone else.

ICC Color Management is a very important discipline to learn. It is THE KEY to getting good results when editing raw data into usable images. Here are some basics:

You can get any color response you want from your camera. But if you want what you see on your monitor to be what you print from your printer or what your lab prints from your files, you must MANAGE the color workflow.

Many things affect the color recorded at the camera:

> Exposure
> Light spectrum (daylight at dawn, morning, noon, afternoon, dusk; flash (many variations!), incandescent (many kinds!), fluorescent (many kinds!), LED (many kinds!), Sodium vapor (two main kinds), Mercury vapor, HMI, power line frequency, power line phase characteristics, etc.
> Lighting specularity or diffusion
> Lighting contrast range
> Menu settings (they prime some initial settings in your software when opening raw files. White balance is the key one.

HINT: If you want accurate color reproduction, use a reference target at the camera. A wide range of white balance targets is available at better camera stores.

At your computer, the most important factor is the MONITOR:

> Is your monitor appropriate for editing images (photos and video)? HINT: Gaming monitors and cheap office monitors probably aren't ideal.
> Does your monitor display ten bit color? HINT: Most monitors display only 8-bits.
> Does your monitor display better than sRGB color gamut? P3 is better, while Adobe RGB is even better.
> MOST importantly, do you calibrate and profile your monitor using a hardware and software solution from Datacolor or X-Rite? This is a simple, software-guided, automated process that takes a few minutes every month to keep your reference monitor honest.

> Monitor calibration "linearizes" the output from black to red, black to green, and black to blue, so the color gray looks the same at every output level.
> Monitor profiling "describes" the exact color reproduction capability of your monitor to the operating system so it can display the color in your files correctly.

Adjusting images on a calibrated and profiled monitor assures that what is in your files will look roughly the same on all calibrated monitors AND printers that are also calibrated and profiled. And yes, that statement will start a thousand rationalizations about why such calibration is silly, (it isn't) but the entire professional imaging world will vehemently agree with me that it is essential.

So where do you start?

1) Calibrate and profile a good monitor with a hardware instrument and the software that comes with it.
2) Use these calibration aims at first:

> Gamma 2.2
> Black Point 0.5 cd/m^2 (candelas per square meter)
> White Point 80 to 120 cd/m^2*
> Initial color temperature 5800K to 6500K*

*Follow software recommendation based on room lighting conditions.

3) Make test prints or order test prints from your lab to confirm you have an acceptable calibration and profile.

That done, pick and install some good raw editing software. Whatever came with your camera or is a free download for your camera is probably the place to start. If you use a major package such as the Adobe Photography Plan, which features Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), a part of Photoshop, Lightroom, Lightroom CLASSIC, and Bridge, or one of the other packages listed by others here, you'll find the most support options. There are thousands of video tutorials on YouTube. Countless websites help users of every major package learn their features. Your favorite search engine is your friend.

Finally, adjust your images in a relatively dim room. The color correction department I ran at a portrait lab was painted neutral gray. We used gray table tops, gray computer operating system backgrounds, and lit the place with one 5000K fluorescent tube bounced off a white ceiling. Operators wore gray smocks. We allowed our eyes 5-10 minutes to adjust to the room conditions before adjusting color. Boring room? Yes, but we were there to achieve accurate flesh tones in millions of portraits.

Finally, if you're on the fence, look at these two illustrations. The first one is a JPEG that represents the camera default settings. The second is a JPEG made from the raw file I also saved at the camera. Review in download mode for best results. Prints from the second one look much more like the scene I know.

>
Okay, seriously, you have a lot of good advice her... (show quote)


Well done

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Sep 2, 2021 16:30:05   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
I wound say start by learning how to properly compose and expose an image. Once you have those skills then I would suggest shooting raw and jpeg.

Open your raw image and try some adjustments to your liking. Compare to the jpeg. Think about what you like and don’t like. You may like the jpeg better. Figure out why.

Don’t give up. practice practice practice this process and at some point you will be able to shoot raw and get results you like better than the jpeg.

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Sep 2, 2021 16:42:37   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Imagine yourself as a successful photographer. Are you shooting in JPEG?


I have read of sports photographers who shoot sometimes thousands of images at one game/competition for quick publication often shoot in JPEG because the editors don't want to hassle with a lot of editing.
A few will use RAW + JPEG if they have a camera that writes to memory fast and/or has a large buffer but most just stick with JPEG for the speed and long burst capability when shooting sports action to be able to catch "The" image that will make the cover of the magazine.

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Sep 2, 2021 17:12:21   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Abo wrote:
Calm down Rob, watch your blood pressure... Just saying it's not an acronym, nothing to lose sleep over.

I'm amazed at so many jumping down my throat just for saying it's not an acronym... sheesh.


I think a lot of it is boredom and just needing something to do. And a good "discussion/fight" does that. Where I come from "fussing" and arguing are almost a sport. And people even switch sides if they get tired of arguing one side. My wife doesn't understand it at all and was shocked out of her mind when we first traveled back to my home town to visit long ago. "How can you argue and fight and then go off together still friends?"

People are so used to all of the "cute & clever" acronyms in use that they expect RAW to be one and not just a word.

My blood pressure isn't up I am in this thread because of boredom and to kill time. My knee has been bothering me a lot lately and we keep going in and out of heat waves. Both keep me from being out and about taking photos and the last update to my NOOK e-reader has hidden a bunch of books and magazines I side loaded in the right format from other sources. I hook the reader up to my desktop and designate it as an external drive and they are there but through the reader's "Library" I don't see them. Maybe it renamed them or changed the folder system for side loaded material. I have long ago come to the conclusion that in general Android can be weird and hard to work with compared to a PC. Maybe I will get a Windows tablet and install the NOOK desktop app that I use on this computer. Only one system to learn and remember.

Oh, in High School I took a class on "debate". Everything was decided by drawing: subject, who was on a debate team, which side of the question you had to debate. Then the teacher and the rest of the class voted on which team won. After one debate in which I got the side I did not believe in, but won, a friend who had been on the other team asked me how I did that. I told him you just have to pretend you believed it and ask yourself "What argument/points do I not want the other team to come up with, and use them."

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Sep 2, 2021 17:28:27   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Abo wrote:


Oh my Lord! You are one of those horrid outlaw bikers! (example of a quick and 99.99% chance wrong conclusion from scant evidence)

I used to ride. I donated my bike to charity a few years ago and I still miss it. But with my knee (and age) my wife didn't want me riding anymore. I admitted that the idea of having the knee give way and leave me on the ground with the bike on my leg bothered me also. So I donated it to charity along with my wife's old minivan, our son/daughter's old sub compact and my 18 year old SUV. We had just replaced the subcompact and my SUV with new vehicles.

But I still miss it, especially when I look at the spot I kept it on the back patio and the tarp that covered it - now covering an exercise machine.

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Sep 2, 2021 18:34:58   #
BadPhoto Loc: Maryland
 
GeneinChi wrote:
I’ve decided to dip my toe into shooting raw. Having never done this, I’m looking for suggestions that can ease me into pp and grow from there. Please keep in mind I’m a beginner.
Thanks in advance.

Gene


First, start spelling it RAW. There's ongoing debate; get on the right side from the start. If you want verification, look it up in your camera manual.

Second, shoot RAW+JPG for a while. It's a hassle to manage both formats, but you can compare what you get from your processing, which should look a lot better than the JPG.

Third, go to YouTube and watch some videos on how to process RAW files. And define some presets that standardize the adjustment you use. I have a variety of presets that I've developed for flowers, portraits, landscapes, architecture, and so on. These provide a basis for how I like to approach processing for these subjects. I also have some presets for sharpening and noise reduction that get me started. Then it's easy to adjust them. When you get comfortable, there are thousands of presets available for download that give lots of different looks. And you can always try your programs Auto settings. Sometimes I've used it to point me at a solution if I'm not happy with what my adjustments are doing.

Fourth, the most difficult task is to adjust white balance to get optimal results. Learn to shoot with white balance targets. For portraits, learn what color skin should be, based upon the race and coloration of your subjects.

Then you can stop taking JPG images. I only shoot RAW+JPG if a client needs quick-look images. For example, at some events they want a slideshow running while giving out awards. Even if there is time for me to do quick processing, it's simpler to give them the JPG images. I just run them through my processor to put a watermark on them, and copy them to a USB stick or uplink them to a web site.

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