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Best Lens for Photographing Documents?
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Aug 23, 2021 14:27:15   #
RichKenn Loc: Merritt Island, FL
 
I have photographed thousands of documents for the Kennedy Mine in Jackson, CA and used my 18-105 Nikon lens. I am sure you can photograph the whole envelope and the address and any flecks of dust will be perfectly clear. As for lighting, no problem if you use a tripod and remote trigger. Who cares how long the exposure? As long as the light is even. Use aperture priority and the lens's sharpest aperture. Have fun.

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Aug 23, 2021 14:34:27   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Since the iPhone 7 Plus, the cameras in them do a GREAT job of casual close-up work. The phone has a built-in stabilizer that keeps the image sharp, even in normal room lighting. I use it all the time for grocery lists and wine bottle labels and appliance nameplates (serial and model numbers).


I hate to use cell phones, in general, but I agree. I have used mine to photograph serial numbers in locations where a regular camera would not fit. The photos are utilitarian and in no way technically good.

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Aug 23, 2021 15:07:25   #
lightyear
 
I did this last year for a coin dealer repaid me for my purchases, plus a fee for my time. I bought a vertical copy stand on line, after reading an article on "coin photography" which provided data .
The stand cost about $120, holds any 35 mm ( aps, dslr, etc.) above the flat plane, camera can move up or down. I used a Nikon #2 52mm close up lens, and a 55-200 aps lens on an old D200 ( they paid for it)with cheap lighting. I photographed many coins, either single coins or a full 8 /12 x 11 page of coins all clear enough for the dealer to advertise the coins. Byh moving the camera up/down and adjusting the zoom lens ( f 16) it worked out well.
Exposure was automatic using f in camera meter. I do not recall who I bought the copy stand from, and bought the used lens at a local camera store.

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Aug 23, 2021 15:58:46   #
DI Seller Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
Wow, if that information does not help be assured it helps me. Great advice!

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Aug 23, 2021 16:09:03   #
Chadp Loc: Virginia Beach
 
Just Fred wrote:
To those who have suggested using a phone camera: Yes, that was my original thought, too. However, I have literally thousands of photos on my phone already, and the transfer from HEIC (which is the format of the current iPhone) to JPEG, the export and potentially the storage need has steered me toward my Nikon. I don't know how many images I will need to take -- it could be a few, it could be thousands -- and my feeling is that I have a fresh SD card I can use and then hand over to the requesting party. No muss, no fuss.
To those who have suggested using a phone camera: ... (show quote)


If you use genius scan then you can choose the files to be saved as jpg or pdf within the genius scan folder. Other apps are probably similar. It will not convert to HEIC because the photos will not be saved within Apple photos. The other nice thing is you can have just one pic as a file or multiple pics as a file. So it will allow you to organize in batches.

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Aug 23, 2021 16:27:58   #
Just Fred Loc: Darwin's Waiting Room
 
BigOldArt wrote:
Why use a camera instead of the scanner that is on many home level and office level printers (copiers)?


Quick answer: Not available.

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Aug 23, 2021 16:40:11   #
no12mo
 
robertjerl wrote:
Documents, maps etc are one thing, just the addresses on the envelopes is a much easier thing.

The addresses can be done with any lens that will focus close enough to get the address large enough and clear enough to read. Though a macro/micro lens would be best.

For documents, maps, old photo prints you need a flat field lens to avoid distortion - macro/micro lens are flat field. (the ones that go to 1:1, not the close up lenses the OEMs often label "macro")

I have known some people who do document photography to use an old enlarger lens modified to mount on their camera and then they mount the whole thing on an old enlarger frame and often use a laptop to tether the camera so they can see what they are doing in large detail. They do make special gear for photographing documents, photo prints and maps that are too large and/or fragile to run through a flatbed scanner*.

I took over the Senior Center Photo Club from a lady who got too busy with volunteer work at the city library - she is digitalizing all their old newspapers, magazines etc. She uses their old microfilm rig, macro lenses on cameras, scanners etc. and often for the old faded and yellowed paper has to run them through photo editing software to make them readable.

*for something like envelopes just using a flatbed scanner and then doing a quick crop and tweak in post processing software will do it.
Documents, maps etc are one thing, just the addres... (show quote)


I agree with using a macro lens plus a tripod and a shutter release or use a 2 second timer

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Aug 23, 2021 16:47:21   #
no12mo
 
burkphoto wrote:
I have decades of experience photographing everything from flat art to photos to book pages and covers to stamps and coins. The following assumes you want pro-grade images.

Here are the basics:

Keep your camera parallel to the envelopes (art, photos, film, whatever). Use a tripod or copy stand. Use the self-timer for two seconds to avoid vibrations (a real problem in macro work!).

Use two identical lights, one on each side of the art, equidistant, at a 45° angle. BE SURE they have a CRI of 95 or higher if you want the best color. I use a couple of Viltrox L-116t video LED panels (around $100 for the pair), but a pair of clamp lamps and 5500K LED bulbs from Home Depot will work okay in a pinch (I have used them). If your lights are adjustable like the Viltrox, choose maximum output and around 4400K. (That uses both the yellow and blue LEDs at close to full brightness.)

METER your lights all across the surface of your copy area. Get the exposure even to 1/6 stop if possible. You can use a hand-held meter if you have one, OR, photograph a sheet of white paper as large as the largest object you will photograph, and adjust the lights until the image looks perfectly even.

Use a short macro lens if you intend to do lots of this. They are FLAT FIELD, for extremely low distortion, and made to copy flat objects. On DX Nikons, that's a 40mm Micro Nikkor.

Alternatively, test the glass you have, and use the lens that gives you a combination of closest focus, least distortion, and sharpest image.

You need little to no depth of field, so stop down between two and three stops from wide open. That is most often the sharpest aperture on most lenses.

Set the lowest NORMAL ISO possible (no "extended range" ISO).

Compose your image. Focus. Then replace it with a photographic gray card (see below).

Adjust the shutter in FULL manual mode to get a normal exposure of a photographic gray card* (Delta-1 8x10 cards are around ten bucks at B&H or Adorama).

* The exposure is normal when you fill the frame or metering area with the gray card and make a test exposure that centers the spike of gray.

Use the gray card to perform a CUSTOM, or MANUAL, or PRESET white balance. Then check the exposure to be sure you have a narrow spike in the center of the histogram.

Do not change the exposure unless you raise or lower the camera relative to the art.

Copy it! Remove the gray card, put the art back, and fire away.

For quick-and-dirty work, JPEGs based on a custom white balance and manual gray card-metered exposure should be fine. If you want post-processing control, save raw files and post-process them.
I have decades of experience photographing everyth... (show quote)


This is probably the most consummate approach to doing a good pro-grade job for the proposed work. I must say the gray card is a much overlooked tool in the photographer's tool box

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Aug 23, 2021 19:47:35   #
SteveFranz Loc: Durham, NC
 
Scanner would give amazingly adequate results.

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Aug 23, 2021 20:16:29   #
k2edm Loc: FN32AD
 
As I said before, photography is not the best way to copy these things, a flat bed scanner is, will give you either a *.jpg or a *.png... You have no focusing or exposure problems, the scanner takes care of that and you can specify color, greyscale or b/w. My printer will either print from a file, from a jpg,from a scanned document, or create a 'jpg from a scanned document & automatically store it. Why play photographer when you don't hafta???

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Aug 23, 2021 20:47:39   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
I was inthe Army, not the Navy! In my brief but eventful military career, I did integrate with naval personnel and spent some time on ships and naval operations installations. I used to notice this sign on display, "There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way"!

In photography, there are many right ways to do any particular job. There are many levels of precision, quality requirements, and usage-sensitive requirements. I think there are even more wrong ways. The further you deviate from the right way, the more potential there's for failure and more costly and time-consuming work to make corrections after the fact. I hate the expression "quick and dirty" because the execution is quick and the results are oftenties very dirty.

Sometimes on threads where a method or equipment is inquired about, some folks seem to go out of their way to encourage the OP to do things that are likely to fail or deride time-honoured and proven methods even if they are not all that complex or expensive. "You don't need to do all that, you are killing a flea with an elephant gun" kind of things oftentimes lead to serious inferior work.

The best approach is to consider the optimum way of doing the job as per professional opinions and then extrapolate, modify, extract, improvise the method bur, at least, adhering to the basic principle, in this case, that is flat, even consistent lighting and the use of a lens that is reasonably corrected and suitable for copy work.

The best way to kill fleas is with flea spray or powder- the stuff that is intended for that job.

After all, as someone alluded to, you can shoot documents with a Minox- I mean is WAS the archetype "spy camera" used for surreptitiously recording blueprints and top-secret documents, but I doubt if the quality would be all that readable.

Well, I never did find out exactly what the "Navy way" was supposed to be, after all, I WAS in the Army!

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Aug 23, 2021 21:33:41   #
flytle Loc: Shreveport, Louisiana
 
Just Fred wrote:
I have offered to assist in a legal research project, photographing documents (envelopes). The only requirement that I am aware of is that the address is legible.
I have several lenses for my Nikon D7500. My all-around go-to lens is a 18-140mm 3.5-5.6 zoom, and my brief tests suggest I can get a legible image from about six inches away from the subject. I also have a 35mm 1.8 prime lens and an 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 zoom.

What I don't know is what the lighting will be like. I'm inclined to use the prime lens, as it's faster in low-light situations. But the 18-55mm should provide more flexibility if I'm not able to get close enough to the subject.

Has anyone done work like this before? I should also note that it's unlikely I can set up a tripod, flash and other gear, so my offer is to give a step up from using a phone camera.

Hints? Ideas?
I have offered to assist in a legal research proje... (show quote)


I do a lot of document copying in the county courthouses in Texas and have found the fastest and easiest way is to use my Ipad or Iphone with a software program called Scanner Pro. It is easy to use, faster then having to set up a tripod and makes a very good copy.

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Aug 23, 2021 21:42:02   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
User ID wrote:
What’s this “you never know” BS ? The OP laid it out clearly enuf. Read it and you *do* know. Anything beyond a phone is a waste of time. If the OP foolishly insists on using his SLR thaz already slowing things down. No need to make it even worse than that :-(

Emergency preparedness would be one small LED panel on a pocket sized tripod. Having been in the microfilm biz I would also warn that many document storage rooms are reeeeeally filthy. It’s not clear yet what the work environment will be.
What’s this “you never know” BS ? The OP laid it o... (show quote)


When answering here on UHH, best practice is to provide information others besides the OP can use. That's the beauty of blogs. We learn a lot more by wading through the universe of information spewed forth by our peers. Everything connects to everything else, sooner or later...

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Aug 23, 2021 23:33:14   #
72fototech
 
you want? desire? need? even illumination on subject ? can sheet of glass - picture frame ¿ size ? <5×7 cover each? hold down flat?
if not ? go to 8x10?
using tripod for camera? subject area is always identical. have thumb tacks handy - two minimum, one from each side of constant illumination sources, thumb t a c k shadows are even = equal illumination on subject. good luck!

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Aug 24, 2021 05:01:09   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Just Fred wrote:
Quick answer: Not available.


Bring one. Problem solved. In your original post, you asked about lenses but you also asked for the advice of people who have done this before.

This document scanner:

https://www.quill.com/brother-ads-1200-desktop-scanner-documents-duplex-white/cbs/55375753.html

Costs $180, is small enough to carry and will do 25 ppm, much faster and with much less hassle than any camera-based solution, from cellphone to a proper document copying setup - especially if lighting is an issue. Sorry for belaboring the point, but you don't use a microwave.convection oven to make toast - you use a toaster - mush simpler and better results. If you don't have a toaster, you to to Walmart and buy one for $25.

Best of luck whatever you do, but I am in the camp that a scanner, preferably one that has an ADF is going to produce better and more consistent results than any camera based solution that does not involve lighting, tripod, anti-reflection measures, etc.

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