Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Do I want or need a mirrorless system? Could it be better for my needs?
Page <<first <prev 5 of 8 next> last>>
Aug 18, 2021 19:44:01   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
zug55 wrote:
The Nikon D850 is an awesome camera. I nearly bought one three years ago when I decided to upgrade to full frame. Instead, I shoot with a Sony A7R III (and with an A7 III) now. I think that the D850 and the A7R III are very close in specs and in image quality.

There are two reasons why I am glad that I did not get the D850. The first is weight and size. I travel a lot, and the thought of carrying a bulky and heavy D850 turned me off. I am retirement age, although not retired, so size and weight matters to me, as it does to OP.

The second is technology. DSLR technology has reached its end. There likely will not be a successor model to the D850. So why invest in a system in which Nikon is no longer investing? I plan to take pictures for another twenty years, inshallah.

I am not trying to convince you to make any changes--you own great cameras that take great images. However, these questions are relevant for OP. He wants to lighten the load and is considering a new system that will allow him to take pictures in the future. To me, it is evident that the sound advice is to go mirrorless and to probably look at an APS-C system.
The Nikon D850 is an awesome camera. I nearly boug... (show quote)


Your thinking is similar to the choices of some race car teams - use a big engine and limited turbocharger with proven reliability to finish almost every race? Or use a small engine and twin turbo for similar (or almost) performance quality that may win the race or break down and lose everything.

An ounce, two or three is literally less than measurable when you carry it in your hands or backpack. Add an extra pound or 3 for the same image quality and the issue is more complicated. Then you should ask questions like - Do I learn a new 'system' and controls or select something that looks/feels/works similar to what I have been using for years. Often this is what makes a horse race or a debacle.

But most decisions can be reduced to "logic" vs. "emotion". Some choose emotion - It's cute. It's small. It's an ounce or two lighter. Or whatever. I choose logic and research for the components, etc. that can contribute to what I want to achieve. - Did you ever have your spouse want to choose your car based upon the paint color? That's cute!

Reply
Aug 18, 2021 20:40:32   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
A Z-50 with the two kit lenses is really the best deal available. I am 78 and experiencing about the same.

Reply
Aug 18, 2021 23:47:41   #
jtm1943
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some race car teams - use a big engine and limited turbocharger with proven reliability to finish almost every race? Or use a small engine and twin turbo for similar (or almost) performance quality that may win the race or break down and lose everything.

An ounce, two or three is literally less than measurable when you carry it in your hands or backpack. Add an extra pound or 3 for the same image quality and the issue is more complicated. Then you should ask questions like - Do I learn a new 'system' and controls or select something that looks/feels/works similar to what I have been using for years. Often this is what makes a horse race or a debacle.

But most decisions can be reduced to "logic" vs. "emotion". Some choose emotion - It's cute. It's small. It's an ounce or two lighter. Or whatever. I choose logic and research for the components, etc. that can contribute to what I want to achieve. - Did you ever have your spouse want to choose your car based upon the paint color? That's cute!
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some ra... (show quote)


I'm also 78. big engines? turbos? meh. Get m4/3 and be happy!

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2021 00:07:54   #
Bfree2 Loc: Grants Pass, Or
 
Boney, my suggestion would be to keep your current system. Because you already know it. The new cameras have so many features it can become so frustrating you might take less captures. Four years ago I returned to this passion, and since all my equipment was stolen, I thought I would go mirrorless to experience the new features. But in retrospect I could have gone back to what I knew, and enjoyed taking the captures I love.
Just my own opinion. So with all this rambling I want to ask, do you have a monopod? That might help with keeping a steady shot.

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 01:57:34   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some race car teams - use a big engine and limited turbocharger with proven reliability to finish almost every race? Or use a small engine and twin turbo for similar (or almost) performance quality that may win the race or break down and lose everything.

An ounce, two or three is literally less than measurable when you carry it in your hands or backpack. Add an extra pound or 3 for the same image quality and the issue is more complicated. Then you should ask questions like - Do I learn a new 'system' and controls or select something that looks/feels/works similar to what I have been using for years. Often this is what makes a horse race or a debacle.

But most decisions can be reduced to "logic" vs. "emotion". Some choose emotion - It's cute. It's small. It's an ounce or two lighter. Or whatever. I choose logic and research for the components, etc. that can contribute to what I want to achieve. - Did you ever have your spouse want to choose your car based upon the paint color? That's cute!
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some ra... (show quote)


That’s a ridiculous comparison. There is no reason to think that a D850 is more reliable than a comparable mirrorless system.

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 04:09:30   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some race car teams - use a big engine and limited turbocharger with proven reliability to finish almost every race? Or use a small engine and twin turbo for similar (or almost) performance quality that may win the race or break down and lose everything.

An ounce, two or three is literally less than measurable when you carry it in your hands or backpack. Add an extra pound or 3 for the same image quality and the issue is more complicated. Then you should ask questions like - Do I learn a new 'system' and controls or select something that looks/feels/works similar to what I have been using for years. Often this is what makes a horse race or a debacle.

But most decisions can be reduced to "logic" vs. "emotion". Some choose emotion - It's cute. It's small. It's an ounce or two lighter. Or whatever. I choose logic and research for the components, etc. that can contribute to what I want to achieve. - Did you ever have your spouse want to choose your car based upon the paint color? That's cute!
Your thinking is similar to the choices of some ra... (show quote)


When digital refined itself enough, did people stay with film or did they move on to digital? Now the technology has moved to mirrorless from DSLR. This is not about paint color making a decision. This is about technology making a deciding factor. People do move on and learn the new technology no matter how comfortable the old technology was.

My Olympus 300 f4 Pro IS lens has the same angle of view as the Canon 600 f4 IS. My Olympus is 3.64" X 8.94", 3.25#, and $2899. The Canon is 6.6" X 18.6", 6.8#, and $12,999. That is a difference of about double the size, 56 ounces (>3#), and about $10,000. That is a lot of difference for the same angle of view without even talking about the difference in IS.

And no one but Olympus has an angle of view with the 150-400 f4.5 Pro IS x1.25 (300-800 f4.5, 375-1000 f5.6 with the x1.25 on, equivalent in 35mm terms and handholdable).

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 05:06:06   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
As soon as you trust your mirrorless camera, you will know how to become a photographer.

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2021 09:32:51   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
wdross wrote:
When digital refined itself enough, did people stay with film or did they move on to digital? Now the technology has moved to mirrorless from DSLR. This is not about paint color making a decision. This is about technology making a deciding factor. People do move on and learn the new technology no matter how comfortable the old technology was.

My Olympus 300 f4 Pro IS lens has the same angle of view as the Canon 600 f4 IS. My Olympus is 3.64" X 8.94", 3.25#, and $2899. The Canon is 6.6" X 18.6", 6.8#, and $12,999. That is a difference of about double the size, 56 ounces (>3#), and about $10,000. That is a lot of difference for the same angle of view without even talking about the difference in IS.

And no one but Olympus has an angle of view with the 150-400 f4.5 Pro IS x1.25 (300-800 f4.5, 375-1000 f5.6 with the x1.25 on, equivalent in 35mm terms and handholdable).
When digital refined itself enough, did people sta... (show quote)


What's funny about the digital revolution is that the people who lost the most from it were the biggest deniers. Kodak practically invented the technology, then their executives couldn't stomach abandoning film and paper fast enough to become a digital imaging powerhouse. I watched that one from an industry insider perspective.

I watched the introduction of the iPhone in 2007 and said, "I want one. But our industry is doomed!" ("Our" industry was the school portrait business, now a shadow of its former self that peaked in the late 1980s.) At a press conference a few days after Steve Jobs introduced the phone, Steve Ballmer made some outrageous predictions. Watch https://youtu.be/1mrKy1ixKaQ and https://youtu.be/eywi0h_Y5_U (Apple has sold over a BILLION iPhones in 14 years!)

In 1996, at the (now defunct) Photo Marketing Association International meeting, Kodak and Fujifilm and a bunch of camera manufacturers introduced a NEW film format: APS. I stood there in the standing-room-only convention center and thought, "This is silly. It will be dead in 15 to 20 years. Digital imaging will kill it." It lasted until 2011, croaking right on schedule.

At another PMAI convention, we met with Noritsu to get an overview of their digital mini-labs. By 2007, we had 40 of them in our Charlotte lab. Then the iPhone was introduced. Then Lifetouch bought us in 2011. In 2015, that lab was closed, killed off by the confluence of computers, the Internet, photo/video sharing sites, mobile smartphones, and related digital technologies. Shutterfly gobbled up Lifetouch.

Digital cameras killed off all but a small niche of film business. The smartphone took most of the business away from the photo industry. Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Cameras will eventually kill off dSLRs. During that transition, there will be plenty of great used gear available, as there was during the transition from film to digital...

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 09:58:26   #
StanMac Loc: Tennessee
 
The only mirrorless I have is a Fuji X-E2S - a nice compact package. I get the most fun out of it using my legacy lenses on it. That alone was worth the price of it bought used.

Stan

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 10:48:48   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
To answer your question(s)
Boney wrote:
With the mirror-less system does one totally depend on the built in auto focus for all focusing, or can one focus using the LCD viewing screen, similarly to the penta-prism finder? Can you see the image well enough to focus sharply with it? .


I don't use the LCD screen much for manual focusing, but the Electronic Viewfinders (EVF) are very good. Most (if not all) mirrorless offer a 'focus assist' ability that will enlarge the image in the EVF by 100% - 200% so you can get the focus pin sharp in the viewfinder. They also have a live focus 'peaking' feature which can be used to illustrate the depth of field in the viewfinder. However, the focusing on the newer mirrorless is so good you may rarely need to manual focus. 'Eye' focus or 'Animal Eye' focus will automatically focus right onto the eye of your subject instantaneously and with a high rate of success.
A benefit with mirrorless that is not often mentioned, is that once you have the diopter adjusted to your eyesight, you can review your shots and call up all of the menus and adjust settings in the viewfinder (EVF) without having to mess with reading glasses to 'chimp' to the LCD screen.

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 11:04:07   #
elliott937 Loc: St. Louis
 
There are five pages of feedback for you by the time I see this during morning hours, but I like to share a thought or two. First: Axiom of mine: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So if you are fine with what you have, don't jump to replace it. Second: Of the lenses you mention, one is a long lens, why keep using it? Pick a good somewhat small 'walk around lens' and go with that. I assume you are doing post processing, so if you are, whenever you see an image you like, but it's small ... only a portion of your picture, crop it. I could look like it was shot with 300mm.

Just some thoughts here.

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2021 12:35:58   #
dick ranez
 
You have two of the best, most versatile cameras that Nikon makes. If weight is the only obstacle looking at mirrorless may seem like an answer, but many times the weight is in the lens - especially with mirrorless. The key is image stabilization by any of many names. I don’t use Nikon but the 5 axis is in the Olympus OMD m1 is outstanding. Yet the 50-150 is “heavy” and the pro lenses are expensive.

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 12:50:46   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
wdross wrote:
When digital refined itself enough, did people stay with film or did they move on to digital? Now the technology has moved to mirrorless from DSLR. This is not about paint color making a decision. This is about technology making a deciding factor. People do move on and learn the new technology no matter how comfortable the old technology was.



Moving from film to digital and moving from mirrored to mirrorless is not even a close comparison. Mirrorless is still using the same medium and images are processed the same as if they came from a DSLR. Light comes through the lens, hits the sensor, and the camera records the data. It doesn't matter to the image if a mirror was involved.

---

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 14:06:50   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
Boney wrote:
I would like some input regarding mirror-less cameras versus our old reliable DSLR friends. I am 81 and physically going slowly down hill. I own a D7000 and a D300E. My walk around lenses are an 18-300mm for the D7000 and a 28-300mm for the D800E. I have many other lenses but these are left on these cameras. As time goes on I am getting weaker and a little shakier. My main reason for personally moving to mirror-less is to end up with a capable system but much lighter than my present systems.
From what I can tell the weight issue is not a big one, the mirror-less system are still fairly heavy. The image stability is now in the camera and it functions by moving the focal plane rather than some element in the lenses. What about focusing? With the mirror-less system does one totally depend on the built in auto focus for all focusing, or can one focus using the LCD viewing screen, similarly to the penta-prism finder? Can you see the image well enough to focus sharply with it? Since the image stabilization is in the camera shouldn't all lenses now be much or at least somewhat less expensive? They don't appear to be cheaper. Now this could be due to the cost of developing a new line of lenses.
With just these features being a little different I don't see a big advantage moving to the mirror-less world over what I now own.
If some of you folks with mirror-less can give me some feedback I would greatly appreciate.
I often end up shooting in situations that only a DSLR could accommodate, such as shooting through a different optical system, i.e. telescopes, microscopes and really different optical situations.
If most of ones shooting is outside, how well does using an LCD screen work out for you. I have trouble using them in bright sunlight, i.e. my mobile phone. Hard to focus using the screen under these circumstances..
I would like some input regarding mirror-less came... (show quote)


You'll definitely be able to review your shots outside much easier than with a DSLR as you can view them inside the viewfinder which blocks out all of the Sun and glare that you get when viewing on the back screen.

There are many advantages to using the mirrorless system - size and weight (although slightly smaller and lighter) are not part of the actual advantages.

Main advantages:

1) IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization)
2) EVF - can display menus and histograms etc and review images inside the viewfinder
3) AF focusing points across 90% of the frame - not just clumped in the middle like on the DSLR's
4) Far superior video AF
5) Eye Detect AF - for portraiture - this enables better composing of the shot as you will no longer have to focus and recompose

There are other differences but these are some of the main ones - notice that size and weight are not listed, and again mirrorless is a little smaller and lighter but not significantly.

If any of the 5 reasons above appeal to you then you should consider the shift. If several of them appeal to you then you should make the switch.

Good luck!

Reply
Aug 19, 2021 14:09:07   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
Boney wrote:
I would like some input regarding mirror-less cameras versus our old reliable DSLR friends. I am 81 and physically going slowly down hill. I own a D7000 and a D300E. My walk around lenses are an 18-300mm for the D7000 and a 28-300mm for the D800E. I have many other lenses but these are left on these cameras. As time goes on I am getting weaker and a little shakier. My main reason for personally moving to mirror-less is to end up with a capable system but much lighter than my present systems.
From what I can tell the weight issue is not a big one, the mirror-less system are still fairly heavy. The image stability is now in the camera and it functions by moving the focal plane rather than some element in the lenses. What about focusing? With the mirror-less system does one totally depend on the built in auto focus for all focusing, or can one focus using the LCD viewing screen, similarly to the penta-prism finder? Can you see the image well enough to focus sharply with it? Since the image stabilization is in the camera shouldn't all lenses now be much or at least somewhat less expensive? They don't appear to be cheaper. Now this could be due to the cost of developing a new line of lenses.
With just these features being a little different I don't see a big advantage moving to the mirror-less world over what I now own.
If some of you folks with mirror-less can give me some feedback I would greatly appreciate.
I often end up shooting in situations that only a DSLR could accommodate, such as shooting through a different optical system, i.e. telescopes, microscopes and really different optical situations.
If most of ones shooting is outside, how well does using an LCD screen work out for you. I have trouble using them in bright sunlight, i.e. my mobile phone. Hard to focus using the screen under these circumstances..
I would like some input regarding mirror-less came... (show quote)


Also, I failed to mention in my response that the Nikon Z50 with the 16-50 kit lens is small and very light. It is a crop sensor camera so it is more of a 16mm than a 35 mm camera but it takes the Z mount lenses and operates like the other Z cameras - if you can use one you can basically use them all.

The Z50 is small and light enough for my 82 year old mother.

Good luck.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 5 of 8 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.