Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

That's a common misconception. Yes you can return the developed image to the Develop Persona but not to further adjust any of the steps previously taken. It may seem a subtle distinction but it's important. If you take an RGB image into the Develop Persona you will be starting fresh with those tools and RGB data. For example in the Develop Persona with a raw file you can set the white balance. If you convert that raw data to RGB data and go back into the Develop Persona you can not just set a different white balance. What you're doing in that case is changing the color balance on top of an already set and baked in white balance. That's obvious in the behavior of the tool. Set a white balance for a raw file temp value = 5350 K. Click Develop and convert to a raw file. Take the raw file back into the Develop Persona and add 600 degrees K to the 5350 value. And you can't do that. And it matters.

Hamltnblue Loc: Springfield PA

Thanks for the heads up wanderer. Reading a couple of reviews looks like this is a good one.

Affinity is one of a few programs in my work flow.
I find that each piece of software has strengths and weaknesses.
If something isn’t behaving or providing the results I am looking for, the file is moved to another program for a try.

Affinity produces some good results in HDR and Plano’s, including blending multiple hdr shots into a pano.
Definitely worth having in the toolbox.

francwoods

DxO Photolab for RAW processing, and it keeps all edits in sidecar file, then export 16 bit TIF to AP. DxO also does pretty good job of camera and lens profile adjustments.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Yes - you're correct - and is something to keep in mind. Thanks for info,

Dennis833 Loc: Australia

Still no mention of the best PS alternative "Photoline". You won't find any reviews on Photoline because they don't pay anyone to promote it . Have you ever wondered if you are getting the correct information from people on the net and Youtube or are they just doing the reviews to make money? I own and use the top two in his list and I've tried number three. Photoline is more powerful than any software on that list.

Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

There used to be something in internet forums called "Hi-jacking a thread" that was frowned on back then. If anyone wants to see a current example of that just take a look at this thread. But, doing that (hi-jacking) doesn't have the negative value it once did - no one cares now. Just another example in the great decline in civility we have experienced in public discourse.

What was supposed to be a simple notification of a software upgrade to people on the forum using that software (and not meant for anyone else) instead inspired an avalanche of words disparaging the software and myself. The author of the thread, me, was accused of having a distorted view and misrepresenting the issue. I deeply resent that. I have never intentionally misrepresented any thing or distored any issue, anywhere, anytime. Having difference of opinion on a thread leading to a disagreement is not distorting or misrepresenting, especially when the opinions being disagreed with were not asked for.

So apparently no thread about Affinity Photo, no matter how simple and unrelated to it's functioning, is safe from Ysarex inserting his perceptions of a fatal flaw in the Develop Persona of that software, one so severe that the program is so inadequate for RAW photo processing that another program is necessary for that processing to be adequately done. And it is not an excuse to say the criticisms were only about that one Persona - who wants to purchase a processsing program only to have to then buy a second one? Not many, especially for people who are just starting out in photo processing. I know of at least one person who decided not to purchase AP based on these exact claims and am sure there are others also.

It is apparent that Ysarex wants to do a great deal of processing of RAW files before they are converted to another file format. I do not believe that is how Serif intended for the software they created to be used. It is stated somewhere in Serif's description of AP and it's workings that the main role of the Develop Persona is to prepare the
file for processing elsewhere in the program, especially the Photo Persona. It further states in the AP Workbook that "For image editing, the majority of your time will be spent in this Persona" (the Photo Persona), p. 17. It further states there "Photo Persona is where you'll be doing the bulk of your image editing work, it's the default Persona where you'll find your brush selection, fill, healing, gradient, and vector tools." p.19.

Incidentally, Ysarex lists 35 tools as being in the Develop Persona. The Workbook only lists 7 and 3 of those are listed in the Photo Persona also. Where did those other 28 come from? My workbook is edition 1.0 (and is tattered and taped together by so much use), have those 28 been added at some time?

Given the above, the way I almost always use AP for RAW files is to import them into AP and allow the program to do it's automatic file conversion and nothing more (with the occasional exception of a crop), then use the Photo Persona for some of the processing it does, then another Persona if needed, and then export the file (which uses another Persona, the Export Persona), and save it in one of the 12 for so file formats AP has for this, usually as a tiff file. This is an easy to learn process and I have had none of the problems that Ysarex describes in such detail, and have processed several thousand RAW files in AP that way with really excellent results. To repeat, please note that I do almost no processing in the Develop Persona, except what the program does automatically, in converting the file. Therein lies one of the differences in how Ysarex and I use AP, and, I believe, why we have such different opinions about the Develop Persona. Also, almost all of the images I process are landscapes and thus I may not have the need for as many tools as Ysarex does (I have no idea what sort of images he processes).

For anyone reading this who may be considering purchase of AP please do not decide based on what I say or what Ysarex says. Use the free trial available (fully refundable) and determine how the program works for you - all of it, including the Develop Persona.

A few months ago I was so upset by these arguments and claims about a program I valued, that I decided to never participate in a thread on AP again in UHH, and did not do since then until this thread. I thought surely something so seemingly innocent as providing a notice of an upgrade and an online review would not provoke the same arguments. Obviously I was wrong and I hope I can resist ever participating in a forum, here or elsewhere, on Affinity Photo again (except the excellent Affinity Photo Forum of course).

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Had your post been a simple notification of an upgrade, as I said, I would not have commented. You got the response that you invited.

I would not comment in response to a simple notification of a software upgrade for AP. Such a post appeared on DPReview last week, I saw it and in fact upgraded my copy of AP and I did not comment.

It is, as the experts will tell you, the best way to work. It's a good idea to do things in the best way to get best results.

Wonder why they put those tools there at all, huh?

I'm sorry that you've been upset. That's never my intention. What I've noted about AP is accurate and I do think novices looking for software should be helped with accurate information. For example, unlike you who said, "who wants to purchase a processsing program only to have to then buy a second one?", I listed three good FOSS options that could be used with AP which I recommended as the best alternative to PS.

srt101fan

Your distress pains me. I mean that. You refuse to, or are unable to, understand what Ysarex is saying. You refuse to, or are unable to, understand what I said about you misrepresenting the issue. Please reread my post where I gave you the specifics on why I said that. And, PLEASE, reread your own initial post, at the end of which you opened the door to the subsequent discussions.

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

I thought this was an excellent discussion on the pros and cons of a software processing program! Thanks for all the information.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

I completely agree but I suspect most Affinity Photo users are not dedicated raw shooters with significant experience with ACR, Lightroom, Capture One, PhotoLab and a few other raw processors. As a result they may not find the Develop persona particularly lacking. For the rest of us, however, Develop is a mediocre raw processor because it is missing a very significant number of features including some critical ones.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

When AP is compared to Photoshop and evaluated as a Photoshop alternative it's the raster editor features of the two programs that get compared. AP is the price/performance winner as long as we keep that comparison price/performance. For folks who don't want to invest in Photoshop AP is clearly the best alternative. And it's good! No argument there. AP is a really good raster editor. But raster editors don't do raw files.

Photoshop also doesn't do raw files. That requires ACR. It's an entirely different comparison to evaluate AP's Develop Persona against ACR. And in that comparison AP's Develop Persona comes up severely lacking. So much so that novices looking to purchase editing software frankly need to be cautioned.

BUT IT'S NO BIG DEAL. Just use AP and use a different raw converter. You don't even have to spend extra $$$. DarkTable runs circles around AP's Develop Persona and it's free! LightZone runs circles around AP's Develop Persona and it's free! RT/ART runs circles around AP's Develop Persona and it's free! Where is there a problem here if what you really want is a raster editor but need to get raw files converted first?

shackcf

I have never used PS or AP to process RAW files. That is what LRC, PL4, Nikon Studio NX is for. After I process my RAW images I then may go back and throw additional edits using PS or AP and I might reload the RAW maybe not. I have noticed on PL4 that some of the optics I use are not available yet. So I use other apps. This all started with an announcement of an AP update.. let's get a handle on the brakes here. However some good info has come to light on all types of alternatives. We are a bunch of HOGS. Hey, stay well out there. 😉📸

sscnxy

Very informative and "frank" discussion by all, and a special thank you to Wanderer2 and Ysarex for contributing to a better understanding of these differences. I for one reread this forum over several times because it was so good

NY

GeorgeK Loc: NNJ

Agree. Good thread and thanks to the contributors.

Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

I had intended to post another response in this thread much earlier but due to a death in the family and being on the road for three weeks I was unable to do so. I hope it isn't too late to do this.

Ysarex posted:

"The experts are all going to tell you that with access to the raw data you have the best opportunity to get the most from you data and you should do as much as possible with the raw data before converting to RGB and applying further processing. They're right about that."

There is an saying in this field of endeavor from way back that states the opposite and it's still used as I saw it online quite recently. It goes something like: "Very much processing of a RAW file can lead to damage to the integrity of the file and should be avoided". This is a paraphrase (it's often seen worded a bit differently) but captures the meaning. I have no idea of how this originated, what damage is meant, or how it does it. I only know this belief has been around a long time. Obviously Ysarex's view is very different. If anyone has any insight regarding this it would be appreciated.

I also would take issue with the words "The experts are all going to tell you....." To speak for "all" experts seems a bit of a reach to me.