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Some Observations on the RAW vs JPEG Dispute
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Jul 6, 2021 09:01:13   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
John Maher wrote:
...If JPEG satisfies your needs, why do more. You should be your own master.


I agree that you should be your own master, but with the caveat that you should understand fully what you are mastering. It is entirely possible that jpg will satisfy your needs but it doesn't hurt to know why.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:05:41   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
pecohen wrote:
This is a topic that I re-visit with some trepidation since I have learned that there are such strong feelings about it. And let me add that I am not telling anyone they have to shoot RAW or do any post-processing; if you are happy with your photography as it is then fine, you should stick with what you know and what you are happy with. But some people may be on the fence about the topic and wondering whether it is worth the time, effort and money that is associated with the switch. And I recently had some experience with this issue that may help in making that evaluation.

It may help to let you know that what renewed my interest in photography was precisely the new possibility of post-processing images on my PC. That new interest began a bit before there were digital cameras, so at first and for quite a few years I was editing JPEG files and initially these came from scanning photos taken with a film camera. The results, even with the early digital cameras, really look pretty inadequate today, but it was new technology and I enjoyed the process. I recently went through some of these old images; most are not worth spending time on.

But somewhere in the late 1990's, years before DSLRs were on the market, I bought an Olympus 2500L. For the day, that was a fairly high-end digital camera. Except that it would only create JPEG images, it would probably qualify as a decent bridge camera today. I found some images that I shot at Yellowstone National Park with that camera. I was busy with other things at the time so I'd never done anything with them.

Editing these old JPEG photos was a good reminder of why I should shoot RAW. Shooting RAW forces me to edit, but editing, for me, is a vital part of the photography process and I will do it whether I shoot RAW or JPEG. Editing these old JPEG images did remind me that the end results will often be better when you start with a RAW image, but really, I was quite aware of that. What I was less aware of was how much easier the job of editing tends to be using RAW sources. Editing these old JPEG images took much more time and effort than they would had they been RAW files. And I found myself resorting to editing techniques I'd not much used for many years; somehow easier techniques with today's great software just did not do the job when starting with JPEG source.

If you are interested, I put these photos into a short slideshow and posted them at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJcPA_78j5M
This is a topic that I re-visit with some trepidat... (show quote)


Very good observation.
I at first disposed of Raw files to my regret.
No more.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:19:34   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
memory so cheap I'm still voting for both

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Jul 6, 2021 09:24:30   #
martykovacs
 
Thank you for your post. I've been on the fence for a long time. What's been holding me back? Spending hours learning the software. I'll start with the camera's free software but from what I read here, maybe I should spend the money for better software because I'll eventually want it after learning it will do a better job. But which one is the best for me? Ahh... decisions, decisions. I'm pretty sure my camera has the ability to photograph in both modes at the same time. After more than a year reading posts here, the one thing I'm sure of is the people on this forum are genuinely helpful. Thanks again.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:26:24   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
imagemeister wrote:
Soo, if you shot antiquated JPEGS back in the day instead of raw, you should have remorse - and make sure you are shooting raw today so you have no more remorse - that is the message I get .....


I do shoot a lot of Jpeg with my Sony A & E bodies, I use them a lot with CIZ (and my A bodies have IBIS which helps all my non-stabilized lenses) for added reach, and yes I do edit them.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:27:12   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Sidwalkastronomy wrote:
memory so cheap I'm still voting for both


I shoot both.
But download only Raw.
Then make a folder for "Fixed" JPEGs.
Also the Raw are all looked at and any that I do not like or close duplicates I keep only one. I try to not shoot duplicates but being able to look immediately I can see a crooked horizon etc. so I shoot again knowing the previous one(s) will be deleted.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:28:24   #
BebuLamar
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I shoot both.
But download only Raw.
Then make a folder for "Fixed" JPEGs.
Also the Raw are all looked at and any that I do not like or close duplicates I keep only one. I try to not shoot duplicates but being able to look immediately I can see a crooked horizon etc. so I shoot again knowing the previous one(s) will be deleted.


I shoot both and put them in 2 subfolders in a main folder.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:38:23   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I shoot both and put them in 2 subfolders in a main folder.


I guess I see no value in the JPEG once I am downloading.
The Raw has all the data and I do touch things up then save it as the JPEG leaving the Raw original.
What do you do with the JPEGs? If you fix the photo in Raw then your JPEG is obsolete.
Just wondering the value of keeping the JPEG as the Raw still has all the original information.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:39:20   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
martykovacs wrote:
Thank you for your post. I've been on the fence for a long time. What's been holding me back? Spending hours learning the software. I'll start with the camera's free software but from what I read here, maybe I should spend the money for better software because I'll eventually want it after learning it will do a better job. But which one is the best for me? Ahh... decisions, decisions. I'm pretty sure my camera has the ability to photograph in both modes at the same time. After more than a year reading posts here, the one thing I'm sure of is the people on this forum are genuinely helpful. Thanks again.
Thank you for your post. I've been on the fence fo... (show quote)


If you're interested in using raw for postprocessing, save all your raw files. Don't wait until you learn all the ins and outs of how to process them in new software. You can always go back and re-process a good image after you learn more about the software.

Nothing wrong with learning on the free software. And before you spend money on paid software, try out whatever 30 day trials are available. However, don't do more than one 30 day trial at a time. You will want to really get into the software completely and few people have lots of free time available to try to do two or three different software packages completely within the 30 day trial period.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:39:51   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
martykovacs wrote:
... I'll start with the camera's free software but from what I read here, maybe I should spend the money for better software because I'll eventually want it after learning it will do a better job. But which one is the best for me? Ahh... decisions, decisions....
...

I simply use the OEM editor for my camera. It meets my needs.
Ya gotta figure out your needs and desires, and if your current editor(s) will do what you need them to do.
If and when the OEM editor no longer meets your needs, get another.

(I also have Elements (primarily for JPEGs), but I mostly use the OEM editor since I primarily use RAW. It does JPEGs also. The editors do work differently.)

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Jul 6, 2021 09:40:09   #
Piltdown1952
 
I am horrible with computers and basically anything IT. Old school: got my first Nikon F in 1972. For me there is no debate because my Nikon D7100 has two memory card slots and I have the camera set to take every shot in JPEG and raw. I imagine many of us on this forum have the same ability.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:40:22   #
Piltdown1952
 
I am horrible with computers and basically anything IT. Old school: got my first Nikon F in 1972. For me there is no debate because my Nikon D7100 has two memory card slots and I have the camera set to take every shot in JPEG and raw. I imagine many of us on this forum have the same ability.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:51:08   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
A RAW file is God's way of telling us how hard it is to be a camera.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:53:12   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I guess I see no value in the JPEG once I am downloading.
The Raw has all the data and I do touch things up then save it as the JPEG leaving the Raw original.
What do you do with the JPEGs? If you fix the photo in Raw then your JPEG is obsolete.
Just wondering the value of keeping the JPEG as the Raw still has all the original information.


I started shooting raw in 2010. For a year or two I shot raw + jpeg until I realized it was an unnecessary complexity that wasted time and space and doubled the number of files that needed to be managed. Since then I shoot only raw, post process everything worth keeping and export them to jpeg as needed. Done.

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Jul 6, 2021 09:55:40   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
John Maher wrote:
There are multiple versions of JPEG. The last transition I watched was to JPEG 2000 and it had significant enhancements over the earlier version (JPEG 79?). JPEG 2000 is probably history now. But each version adds improvements so just "old JPEGs" is not an accurate description.

Far as I know there was no JPEG 79. JPEG was developed in 1992 and the latest version is from 1994. JPEG 2000 is/was an attempt to add a lossless format to jpeg compression. I don't think it's gone over well, just as things like png has not overtaken file compression.

The reason is pretty simple, jpeg compression works exceedingly well and has been the de facto standard for
photo compression since it's inception. The "lossy" part of jpg compression is generally insignificant other than in a small number of situations. Lossless formats abound, such as TIFF, .PSD, .afphoto, .acdc. and raw. The last four are pretty much proprietary, so there's that...

What has changed since 1994 is the photo editors, and they have improved a good bit, most notably in ease of use.

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