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Should we expect full disclosure of photographic and PP techniques?
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Jun 23, 2021 12:31:20   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Actually not. I find that people now mostly post their best, including the processing, and the thumb over the corner of the out of focus frame is now the rather infrequent event verses my memories of years past.


I find not so much out of focus frames and and thumbs over corners as I do what look like snapshots. Fine in what they are, but not the kind of thing I’d proudly post in a gallery. Then again I mostly just look at the gallery stuff that pops up in the digest.

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Jun 23, 2021 12:34:39   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I find not so much out of focus frames and and thumbs over corners as I do what look like snapshots. Fine in what they are, but not the kind of thing I’d proudly post in a gallery. Then again I mostly just look at the gallery stuff that pops up in the digest.


Those snapshots must be the only 'real' images free of all that post processing fakery our OP wants everything else properly labeled ...

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Jun 23, 2021 12:43:15   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
An example RAW recovery.

I saw this duck on my digital frame yesterday and was reminded of the recovery effort made from the underexposed RAW. If you open the attachment and click to the 1:1 details, even in the 2048 resized version, you can see the details and the image harvested from the original 'miss' in the camera.

Is this a reason to shoot in RAW for the recovery of that 1 miss? Probably not. The idea is to show what the image format and editing software (and training and practice) are able to accomplish.

Nothing about this image is a composite. But, a lot of processing occurred, just simply to recover a workable. It's hard to see from the dark version, but a lot of distractions in the water were removed. Who even cares? For those responding that they no longer trust their eyes, do you even care? Would I submit it as a wildlife photo? No, it was captured at the San Diego Zoo and advertised as such to show off the closeness of the animals there.
An example RAW recovery. br br I saw this duck on... (show quote)


Very good example of Raw recovery...

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Jun 23, 2021 12:46:13   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Delderby wrote:
So it is then no longer a photograph.


Manipulated photographs have been considered photographs throughout the history of photography, and that doesn't change since digital came along.

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Jun 23, 2021 12:49:29   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
The dodging, burning. masking and cutting of negative film processing was minimal compared to what can be done with a computer and a digital file. The advances made in post processing has negated the old saying, "The camera does not lie." In today's world Photographs should seldom be trusted to be the truth.


Almost everything Photoshop can do was done in the darkroom, it is just easier with digital and accessible to more people. Photographs have never been able to be trusted to depict the "truth" from its beginnings.

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Jun 23, 2021 12:55:02   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The real beauty of photography is found in all the rules.

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Jun 23, 2021 12:55:57   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
rules and GAS attacks and are their rules about GAS ATTACKS even if it's not your money

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Jun 23, 2021 13:02:41   #
peter.zimmerman
 
I distinguish between a “photograph” and a “photomontage” or “photo collage.” A true photograph is a record of what was visible during a single exposure from a single point. No objects are inserted in post processing or in the darkroom; neither are they deleted. Photo collages can include elements from several photographs. A photograph can have the contrast range changed by changing the exposure and by dodging and burning and can have the color balance altered. Collages or montages can do all of the above and select and merge elements from many photographs.

If Ansel Adams had deleted Half Dome from a picture of Yosemite Valley or inserted it into a shot of the Grand Tetons, that would be a collage.

Both techniques are equally acceptable to me so long as the artist is up front about it.

There are clearly some hybrids as when many shots of an eclipse are superimposed in order to show the approach to and retreat from totality. An HDR image is also a hybrid of sorts: two or more exposures of the same subject from exactly the same viewpoint composited together to increase the dynamic range of the final image. HDR can be accomplished in-camera today, but used to be a very difficult darkroom exercise. An example would be Wendy Carlos’s splendid composite of a solar eclipse allowing phenomena from the dimmest part of the corona to bright solar flares all to appear in a single print and all accomplished in a darkroom, pre-digital and pre-Photoshop.

Solarization, for example, is a way to create an abstract image, as is tone/color separation. Both can be part of either a photograph or a collage.

All of these are legitimate techniques if needed to show the artist’s vision and if no attempt to conceal their use is made. I won’t get into the question of whether moving the skull of a cow from one place to another is honest; that’s too philosophical for me.

—pz

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Jun 23, 2021 13:32:20   #
Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC
 
sb wrote:
But isn't sky replacement (without disclosure) claiming the image is something it isn't?


No unless you claim it was what was taken by the camera. A photograph is something you want the viewer to see, not nessesarily reality unless you are a photo journalist or sports photographer. Take portrait photography, very seldom do you leave the photo untouched the way it came out of the camera, you try to make the subject look good, otherwise it is a snap shot.

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Jun 23, 2021 13:38:07   #
Bobsphoto
 
Simple question - What is the photograph going to be used for? The answer may define what can or should be done with it. Forensic photography requires truth in the image, but even police labs will enhance a photo to glean information. If it is for art, anything goes. Portrait or event photography should make the client happy. Is adding flash an artificial means of enhancing a photo. When you adjust shutter speed or depth of field, are you using mechanical means to enhance a photograph? The answer is that there is no answer. It is up to the creator to apply and the viewer to decide.

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Jun 23, 2021 13:43:05   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
User ID wrote:
So you’re putting the camera side of the equation up on a pedestal. And then you mouth BS about “art”. Daily news shots are 100% camera and usually 0% art.

For over 40 years I have done nothing with a camera EXCEPT to produce fodder for extensive further processing, and that INCLUDES the chromes. Only camera clubbers think chromes are a finished product. BTW I’ve done most of the jobs in this bidnez.

Bluntly put, I find your perspective to be extremely naive, parochial, and insulting.
So you’re putting the camera side of the equation ... (show quote)


Simple question requiring a one word answer: Did you process Kodachrome film?

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Jun 23, 2021 13:50:55   #
lensmaster Loc: Chicago
 
FULL DISCLOSURE? 1. Why? 2. Why?
Please explain exactly what you would gain or learn from someone else's work flow or technique.
If you looked at a painting does it make any difference if the wrist action applying a layer of paint is left/right strong or soft? Does knowing the exact technique and physical work make the painting or image better? Worse?

Instead of worrying about what and how, 99.9% has nothing to do with YOU, look at the image. Does it move you? Does it create a positive impact? Do you like/not like the image or subject matter? Everything else is BS and not worth the time.

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Jun 23, 2021 14:18:45   #
GEngel-usmc Loc: Spencerport NY - I miss Lakeland, FL
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The artist spends years learning to create images no one else could create in a life-time.


Well phrased, Paul. 👍👍👍👍👍

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Jun 23, 2021 14:45:07   #
FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9
 
Delderby wrote:
Oxford University:
"Plagiarism is presenting someone else's work or ideas as your own, with or without their consent, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement. All published and unpublished material, whether in manuscript, printed or electronic form, is covered under this definition".

I repeat from the above "without full acknowledgement" QED


I plagiarize my own work frequently, but I never disclose it . . .

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Jun 23, 2021 15:06:49   #
RichKenn Loc: Merritt Island, FL
 
I suggest that UHH is a cooperative in that we help each other. Therefore when I submit one of my modest attempts, I always describe the settings and adjustments. I wish I had some secrets to withhold!

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