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My beloved Nikon
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Jun 17, 2021 15:53:09   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
texasdigital wrote:
So I’m trying to be upbeat and positive, however, with Nikon’s continuing problems, I am concerned that my beloved Nikon will go the way of Olympus. I’ve been a Nikon fan ever since Canon went to the EOS system, requiring us to upgrade all of our lenses. Until then, I used many different camera platforms, including SpeedGraphics 4x5. Once I switched, Nikon has always served me well, and I never saw the need to switch to Canon or Sony. However, times are changing, and it remains to be seen whether Nikon gets it’s act together or not. An article explains why they might not survive the current transition (https://petapixel.com/2021/01/20/nikon-is-going-to-be-fine-probably/). While Japan’s industry usually makes reliable decisions, that is not always the case.

I love my Nikon equipment. I’ve owned, and still own, a number of Nikon bodies, but my main bodies are the D610 and D850. But, my biggest investment is in Nikon lenses. My opinion has always been that the lens is the heart of any camera system. Bodies change and improved, but lens are a long term investment. That is, unless the entire system fails, such as the case if Nikon is no longer a competitor in the market.

So, if there are any Nikon executives monitoring this forum, please do not allow my beloved Nikon to go the way of the dinosaurs. Make good financial decisions and get your engineers off their butts and continue to innovate and improve. I know I am just one person and my support of Nikon won’t be a difference in whether Nikon is successful or not, but understand that I once lived in Japan and I understand the Japanese Psyche better than most Gaijin. Please don’t disappoint me and the thousands of Nikon supporters who have faithfully stuck with you for many years. Kimi nara dekiru yo!
So I’m trying to be upbeat and positive, however, ... (show quote)


Have no fears. Olympus hasn't gone away, the new company is releasing new products this year. If Olympus is still viable, Nikon is several times over. There are more Nikon lenses out there than any other company. Nikon will be releasing new product later this year also. If you really love Nikon, get a Z6ii or Z7ii to go along with your 850 and you will have enough camera power to last you the rest of your life. There are people on here every day posting beautiful shots taken with D7100s, and D800s, even with D700s. The best photography starts between the ears, not between the hands.

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Jun 17, 2021 15:54:01   #
gouldopfl
 
texasdigital wrote:
So I’m trying to be upbeat and positive, however, with Nikon’s continuing problems, I am concerned that my beloved Nikon will go the way of Olympus. I’ve been a Nikon fan ever since Canon went to the EOS system, requiring us to upgrade all of our lenses. Until then, I used many different camera platforms, including SpeedGraphics 4x5. Once I switched, Nikon has always served me well, and I never saw the need to switch to Canon or Sony. However, times are changing, and it remains to be seen whether Nikon gets it’s act together or not. An article explains why they might not survive the current transition (https://petapixel.com/2021/01/20/nikon-is-going-to-be-fine-probably/). While Japan’s industry usually makes reliable decisions, that is not always the case.

I love my Nikon equipment. I’ve owned, and still own, a number of Nikon bodies, but my main bodies are the D610 and D850. But, my biggest investment is in Nikon lenses. My opinion has always been that the lens is the heart of any camera system. Bodies change and improved, but lens are a long term investment. That is, unless the entire system fails, such as the case if Nikon is no longer a competitor in the market.

So, if there are any Nikon executives monitoring this forum, please do not allow my beloved Nikon to go the way of the dinosaurs. Make good financial decisions and get your engineers off their butts and continue to innovate and improve. I know I am just one person and my support of Nikon won’t be a difference in whether Nikon is successful or not, but understand that I once lived in Japan and I understand the Japanese Psyche better than most Gaijin. Please don’t disappoint me and the thousands of Nikon supporters who have faithfully stuck with you for many years. Kimi nara dekiru yo!
So I’m trying to be upbeat and positive, however, ... (show quote)


The number of units sold are dwindling s bit each year and thus the overall market share means less for each manufacturer. How that relates to future sales and manufacturers closing will be determined by the overall strength of the company l. Both Sony and Canon have other sales of things like medical imaging and other business units. Nikon keeps pushing products out the door faster than say Canon or Sony right now. Will it be seen in more market share is still unknown. One reason I stayed with Canon when switching from DSLR's to mirrorless is that I had a large investment in EF mount lenses. Canon made it painless to use those lenses on mirrorless RF mount cameras. IMO the adapters they made were so good and the performance of my lenses in the mirrorless world meant I didn't have to loose my investment in glass. At some point I believe that some manufacturers will die because of the total of cameras will continue to dwindle

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Jun 17, 2021 15:57:06   #
khildy Loc: Brownsburg, IN
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I am wondering as to why we're not happy with what we have? Why are we always have to see what's our favorite camera manufacturer going to make next? I am happy with what I have because if I don't I wouldn't own them. I don't buy any of my toys if I think I would want to replace it with something better in the future. I said toys because cameras are my toys. I don't need them to make a living. I don't have to settle for what's available now. I don't buy anything that I think I would get tired of in the future.
I am wondering as to why we're not happy with what... (show quote)



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Jun 17, 2021 16:03:18   #
drmike99 Loc: Fairfield Connecticut
 
quixdraw wrote:
'68, still on board. Way too much great Nikon stuff to consider any other brand. It will outlast me in all probability.


January 1969 for me with a Nikon F/Photomic FTN. I've had many others in between, including Olympus OM2 and still have an OM10 on the shelf. Currently Film Nikons: FE and F6, Digital Nikons D7100 and a recently acquired Z6. Gifted my D5000 to a son. Plenty of lenses both new and legacy (AI).

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Jun 17, 2021 16:05:20   #
BebuLamar
 
Carnpo wrote:
I chose my first Nikon in early 70s. I now have myself a Nikon Museum. They all work. I am retired and 73 years old. When I croak my Grandson will have them all. Only one will be Mirrorless. The S2 which looks and function like new.


And you know why Nikon hesitated to make digital mirrorless? Because while your S2 is an excellent camera it was not a success.

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Jun 17, 2021 16:09:54   #
texasdigital Loc: Conroe, Texas
 
baron_silverton wrote:
- like the person who started this chain - I sure they as a D850 user will go mirrorless if a rumored Z8 that surpasses the D850 in every way were to be offered.

-B


I am the person who started this chain. I have to tell you, the multitude of responses I’ve received warms the cockles of my heart. Especially from the gentleman who works(ed) at Nikon and brought to us a totally different perspective that Nikon is by no means dead. It may be having growing pains in it camera division, but people are actively working behind the scenes to keep Nikon viable and current. At least that’s the plan.

I do wish to thank the multitude of responders, no matter what your perspective, for providing your point of view. We as a community of photographers may not always agree on the details, but for the most part we recognize we are a community with many things in common.

Contrary to my somewhat gloom and doom posting that began this thread, I am a positive person and fully intend to continue learning during my photographic journey. One day I’ll be able to afford the Nikkor 800mm F/5.6 lens, and then I’ll feel my photographic life is complete (LOL).

Thank you everyone for pulling me out of the ruts and placing me back on the paved road.

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Jun 17, 2021 16:10:56   #
xposure
 
In the late 70's when Canon introduced the F-1 and a whole slew of new, fast, super sharp L lenses, they put Nikon on their butts. Associated Press, UPI, National Geographic and others went to Canon mostly for the lenses. Nikon hadn't changed a lens design in 15 years and their 180 f/2.8 weighed over 3x the Canon 200 f/2.8 and wasn't as sharp. Most of them kept their Nikon's as well because the bodies were stronger and better sealed against sand. Nikon is not know for innovations like Canon and Sony are, but it is still a great camera system. I cannot imagine it going away.

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Jun 17, 2021 16:12:52   #
smussler Loc: Land O Lakes, FL - Formerly Miller Place, NY
 
jsmangis wrote:
I’m with you. I have been a Nikon fan and user since I was a child when my father traded his beloved Leica M3 for a Nikon F2 Photomic. My first Nikon was an EM, and had several film Nikons before my wife gave me a D80 for my 60th birthday. I currently shoot with D610 and have a collection of MF and autofocus Nikkor lenses.


Using quote reply would help everyone know who you are responding to.

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Jun 17, 2021 16:16:09   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
baron_silverton wrote:
Hi Paul,

You make good points as always - I would add that Nikon has significantly down sized their operations cutting massive overhead costs out of the equation - overhead costs that its not clear actually did anything for them - not R&D costs, but mostly expensive Japanese production facilities etc.

Also, you point out that they only sold 1 mirrorless to Canon and Sony's 5 and yes this is not a good sign, but it is also true that the bulk of Nikon users are still DSLR users that have yet to switch - most of these will likely switch to Nikon once Nikon has produced a mirrorless that truly competes with a D850 etc. - like the person who started this chain - I sure they as a D850 user will go mirrorless if a rumored Z8 that surpasses the D850 in every way were to be offered.

A semblance of evidence for this is already emerging - although the Z6II and Z7II have gotten much better, they still lack a couple integral elements to make them D850 worthy - mainly in the area of autofocus and subject tracking. Even still, Nikon saw an uptick of sales percentage wise on the generation II cameras indicating that there is a market waiting in the permafrost (so to speak) that they have now tapped but have still not exploited.

If the Z9 delivers as promised (and I admit this is an IF - if it doesn't then I agree the game will be close to over) and it has state of the art AF including Eye AF equal to Canon and Sony and subject tracking also equal then the Z system will have arrived and there will no longer be that 'one thing' that is always pointed to as to why Sony and Canon are better - autofocus. Then, once this tech trickles down in the next generation to the Z6/7III or the fabled but hopefully real Z8, I think Nikon will have a renaissance of sales of their mirrorless cameras - even to rival that of Sony. We know that Nikon was the second highest seller of digital cameras (total sales) below Canon in 2019 but most of them were DSLR's - when all those (or most of them) folks switch to Nikon mirrorless then Nikon should have a solid position in the market competing with Sony for #2.

Obviously, they will never catch Canon and neither will Sony - unless Canon does something really stupid which is doubtful.

So far, I have to say, I am quite impressed with the RF system - the innovations that Canon have produced in recent times combined with some awesome lenses has solidified their #1 position even further - and good for them - they deserve it.

I also have to admit, I do not understand this alleged Nikon retro DX camera that is rumored to be released in a week or so - this is NOT the direction that I think they should head in, and I am scratching my head about it - I hope they prove me wrong but I doubt it. Nevertheless, if the Z9 performs as promised and the next generation of mirrorless gets this new tech, I think Nikon will definitely survive and do fairly well between the increased sales and the significantly reduced costs they now enjoy.

In all cases, as I am sure you agree, it is in the best interest of all of us camera consumers for Nikon to survive - it helps to keep Sony and Canon innovating and helps to keep prices competitive, so for these reasons I know you are rooting for Nikon just as the rest of us are.

Thanks Paul for your insightful comments as always :)
-B
Hi Paul, br br You make good points as always - I... (show quote)


I'm not sure that Nikon is pushing Sony nor Canon any longer. The D850 is an August 2017 release. As recently as 2020, according to Nikon Rumors, they were still flirting with another DSLR release. For who? No one wants a DSLR, not a new one at a new body price. It seems that reality and time have overrun this outdated idea. But that it was under consideration hints at some problems in the leadership of the company.

As mentioned in my first response, limited support for the legacy F-mount lenses is another problem. Every Canon EF and EF-S lens ever made works as good as, if not better, on the EOS mirrorless bodies with Canon's adapter. That's a big fat on-ramp to the mirrorless super highway. Alas, the same doesn't exist for every F-mount lens.

Also as discussed, the shrinking camera market makes things harder for Nikon. Can Nikon or Sony displace Canon from all the all-Canon shops? Unlikely, as it would have happened already in the last 30 years if it was ever going to happen. Can Nikon at least convert all their existing customers? Well, that F-mount problem is a problem in that approach. As are the costs, as mentioned by our OP in a recent reply.

The Olympics should have been the showcase of all the new top-tier releases. I'm unsure if the uncertainty of the Olympics being held is holding back the camera announcements. Someday the releases will happen and then we'll see over probably 2 or 3 years if a great shakeout finally happens.

A retro DX camera, w/ or w/o a mirror, is another harbinger of failure. The APS-C sensor size has a place in pocket-sized models, but for interchangeable lens cameras, the writing is on the wall for this sensor format.

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Jun 17, 2021 16:44:04   #
eternal camper Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
I have been a loyal Nikon supporter since 2000, when I purchased my first digital camera. I did buy a Canon at first, but after a number of months using it, I thought that it was the camera, not the person behind the camera, that was at fault, and therefore moved to Nikon. I have had many, many bodies, now have the D850 & D500, have 10 lenses, 2 flashes, and many accessories, and even became an NPS member. I have been looking to move to mirrorless for past year but was really never sold on the Z6 or Z7, as I felt it was not a step forward from their great D850 and I guess I have been waiting for what is being called by Nikon as their next HUGE announcement, their Z9! Recently, I even went to my local camera store where I was looking at a Conon R5 or the Sony A7R IV and they both interested me a lot, but I am a patient man, (not sure how much longer I can be patient) as I await the newest member of the Nikon family, yes, the Z9.

If it does not meet the specs that Nikon's rivals are developing at a very steady pace, I will be moving, and spending my $$$$ with either Canon or Sony, and will not spend any more of my hard earned dollars with a company that I used to say to all of my camera colleagues that I was a Nikon family member!

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Jun 17, 2021 16:55:44   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
eternal camper wrote:
I have been a loyal Nikon supporter since 2000, when I purchased my first digital camera. I did buy a Canon at first, but after a number of months using it, I thought that it was the camera, not the person behind the camera, that was at fault, and therefore moved to Nikon. I have had many, many bodies, now have the D850 & D500, have 10 lenses, 2 flashes, and many accessories, and even became an NPS member. I have been looking to move to mirrorless for past year but was really never sold on the Z6 or Z7, as I felt it was not a step forward from their great D850 and I guess I have been waiting for what is being called by Nikon as their next HUGE announcement, their Z9! Recently, I even went to my local camera store where I was looking at a Conon R5 or the Sony A7R IV and they both interested me a lot, but I am a patient man, (not sure how much longer I can be patient) as I await the newest member of the Nikon family, yes, the Z9.

If it does not meet the specs that Nikon's rivals are developing at a very steady pace, I will be moving, and spending my $$$$ with either Canon or Sony, and will not spend any more of my hard earned dollars with a company that I used to say to all of my camera colleagues that I was a Nikon family member!
I have been a loyal Nikon supporter since 2000, wh... (show quote)


The EOS R5 has changed how we think about mirrorless, how we think about photography, how we think about life.

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Jun 17, 2021 17:29:26   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm not sure that Nikon is pushing Sony nor Canon any longer. The D850 is an August 2017 release. As recently as 2020, according to Nikon Rumors, they were still flirting with another DSLR release. For who? No one wants a DSLR, not a new one at a new body price. It seems that reality and time have overrun this outdated idea. But that it was under consideration hints at some problems in the leadership of the company.

As mentioned in my first response, limited support for the legacy F-mount lenses is another problem. Every Canon EF and EF-S lens ever made works as good as, if not better, on the EOS mirrorless bodies with Canon's adapter. That's a big fat on-ramp to the mirrorless super highway. Alas, the same doesn't exist for every F-mount lens.

Also as discussed, the shrinking camera market makes things harder for Nikon. Can Nikon or Sony displace Canon from all the all-Canon shops? Unlikely, as it would have happened already in the last 30 years if it was ever going to happen. Can Nikon at least convert all their existing customers? Well, that F-mount problem is a problem in that approach. As are the costs, as mentioned by our OP in a recent reply.

The Olympics should have been the showcase of all the new top-tier releases. I'm unsure if the uncertainty of the Olympics being held is holding back the camera announcements. Someday the releases will happen and then we'll see over probably 2 or 3 years if a great shakeout finally happens.

A retro DX camera, w/ or w/o a mirror, is another harbinger of failure. The APS-C sensor size has a place in pocket-sized models, but for interchangeable lens cameras, the writing is on the wall for this sensor format.
I'm not sure that Nikon is pushing Sony nor Canon ... (show quote)


I agree with you about the retro camera - seems like a really strange and inappropriate move at this juncture - both because it is retro when Nikon needs to prove itself as up to date with tech, and because it is APS-C, which I agree is not where the action is in the ILC market.

To your other points, I think that Nikon was thinking of another DSLR because they have so many DSLR users out there - but I also think that they have since abandoned this idea - there has been no talk of a D880 in a long time, and I doubt that camera is going to materialize.

Instead they need to get the Z99 out and deliver on the promise that it will truly be a flagship mirrorless camera with state of the art tech including (but not limited to) autofocus matching Canon and Sony - then they need to immediately trickle this tech down to the very next generation of cameras - this is where a Z8 could shine.

If all the D850 users came over to the Z8 Nikon would be doing well indeed.

As for the adapter not working as well as Canon's - this is true in that it does not allow D style (screw drive) lenses to autofocus, but other than that it works very well. With newer F mount lenses from the last 20 years, and I think there are around 100 of them it adapts them perfectly to the Z mount.

I regularly use the 105mm 1.4E and 58mm 1.4G lenses on the FTZ adapter with my Z6 and Z6II and I can say that these lenses work better with the Z camera than they did natively on the DSLR's - they seem just as responsive for AF but they now enjoy 3 axis image stabilization and focus points across the screen - honestly it has revitalized these lenses and I don't know if I will ever stop using them even if analog Z mount lenses are released.

I agree, however, that Nikon should make an adapter that can power the D style screw drive lenses just so their entire lens collection would still be fully operable on Z mount - I think they could get away with charging a lot for this adapter - like $350-$450 - I mean they are charging $399 for the vertical grip and it still sells (I bought it and don't regret it at all - the one with controls - not the battery brick). I think they could charge a lot because to those that have need of it, it would be worth it and for those that don't need it they would not buy it anyway.

Oh, and when I said they were pushing Sony and Canon - I don't mean technologically (at the moment - although this could change with the work that Nikon is doing in R&D on sensors), I mean more as a competitor in the market that forces them to keep prices lower and to think about innovation in general.

Anyway, here's hoping that they can get their sh&t together and solidify their position as a solid 3rd place and maybe even on the heels of 2nd :)

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Jun 17, 2021 17:34:46   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
billnikon wrote:
I am like MAD magazine, "What, me worry". I worked for Nikon, the Nikon camera division is only about 8% of the total company, do not worry, Nikon is first and foremost a LENS company, they mold their own glass from dust particles. Currently their are only two companies in the world that do this and Nikon is one of them.
Nikon camera division is not going anywhere. Trust me. Your lenses are the finest made in the world, use them proudly. I own and still use my D3s with many "D" Nikon AF lenses. They outperform any lens out there.
Nikon will still be here 100 years from today.
This said I am also using Sony camera's and lenses for now, as soon as Nikon catches up, I will switch back.
It was Nikon camera's and glass that went to the Moon, it is Nikon rangefinders and glass that still accompany the Shuttles to the international space station, and yes, Nikon camera's are still used there, everyday of the week. Only Nikon. I wonder why, but not really, Nikon optics are used in most of the best scientific instruments used today around the world.
I am not knocking Canon, Sony, and other companies, they all produce fine instruments. And Nikon will be right there with them producing relevant products.
Nikon, at first when mirrorless camera's out, did not appropriate much R&R toward it, but over the past couple of years they have been throwing more resources toward them. That is starting to pay off. Just watch and see.
I am like MAD magazine, "What, me worry"... (show quote)


Seems you forgot about the Hasselblad cameras that went into space for many years.

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Jun 17, 2021 17:42:08   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
texasdigital wrote:
I am the person who started this chain. I have to tell you, the multitude of responses I’ve received warms the cockles of my heart. Especially from the gentleman who works(ed) at Nikon and brought to us a totally different perspective that Nikon is by no means dead. It may be having growing pains in it camera division, but people are actively working behind the scenes to keep Nikon viable and current. At least that’s the plan.

I do wish to thank the multitude of responders, no matter what your perspective, for providing your point of view. We as a community of photographers may not always agree on the details, but for the most part we recognize we are a community with many things in common.

Contrary to my somewhat gloom and doom posting that began this thread, I am a positive person and fully intend to continue learning during my photographic journey. One day I’ll be able to afford the Nikkor 800mm F/5.6 lens, and then I’ll feel my photographic life is complete (LOL).

Thank you everyone for pulling me out of the ruts and placing me back on the paved road.
I am the person who started this chain. I have to... (show quote)


I have a Nikon, Zeiss and Leitz (Leica) microscopes because of the optics and construction quality. All the bigger optics companies are involved with a wide variety of imaging. Leitz has a global mapping division that takes photos from orbit around the Earth. And these companies make a wide variety of devices for medical applications. They are not dependent upon photo camera sales as a major revenue source.

Slight change of topic toward something else you wrote. Strongly recommend that you rent a 600 mm F/4 or 800 mm primes. With storage cases or holding them/carrying them with your camera on them, get the feel of just how much they weigh. I bought a 600 mm F/4, tested it and returned it. It was not materially sharper than my 200-500 zoom with a tremendous increase in heft, compared to the 200-500. If it was truly, discernably sharper, I would have kept it. And I know that I would have used it infrequently because of the size/weight, especially for 3-10 mile walks.

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Jun 17, 2021 18:08:13   #
texasdigital Loc: Conroe, Texas
 
baron_silverton wrote:

Instead they need to get the Z99 out and deliver on the promise that it will truly be a flagship mirrorless camera with state of the art tech including (but not limited to) autofocus matching Canon and Sony - then they need to immediately trickle this tech down to the very next generation of cameras - this is where a Z8 could shine.

If all the D850 users came over to the Z8 Nikon would be doing well indeed.


So I’m about to show my ignorance. I honestly never gave much thought to a mirrorless camera as I don’t understand the benefits, other than weight and size. I’m sure many of you can educate me, and it’s obvious many pros are going to them as we speak.

I have limited funds, so I can’t be jumping bodies just to get the latest technology, even if I actually need the latest technology, which often I don’t. I waited a long time before going to a full frame (D610) but justified it due to the bigger sensor. I now own a D850 and I’m not sure why I would want to upgrade to the Z8 when my D850 runs circles around any previous bodies I’ve own, including some film Nikons.

However, having said all of above, I have to clarify that those Nikon users who do care about mirrorless and other innovations Canon and Sony have brought to the market should be concerned that Nikon has fallen so far behind. Based on the comments made prior to this, it would appear that Nikon may be guilty of neglect at the upper management level, you know, where the decisions are made. If Nikon wants to remain viable in this industry, they need to re-think their corporate philosophy and get with the program.

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