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Thumb drive question
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May 19, 2021 18:14:11   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
TriX wrote:
There are several problems with flash drives as archival storage. First, as noted, they are not physically robust. Second they are built with the least expensive TLC or QLC devices available (roughly 1/3 the cost of equivalent size SSDs) and one reason cheap devices are cheap is because of poor QA and they’re often using the reject devices that have so many defective cells that they’re not usable elsewhere. Third, because of their small size and reduced complexity, the don’t have room or the margins to include the advanced wear leveling and bad cell relocation “housekeeping” functions of an SSD. Fourth, being a NAND flash device, they are subject to data corruption from particles created by cosmic rays, defects that more sophisticated NAND Flash devices such as SSDs are able detect/correct. And finally, they are typically dog slow.

I have a jar full that I sometimes use for moving data between platforms, and like a previous poster, some have data that is still good after years last time I checked, but I’d never trust them for archive. You have to ask yourself why no commercial/enterprise IT organizations use them for archive if they are so reliable and cheap. If you want a reliable archive, for local storage, you can’t do better than MDisks, and for an off site disaster recovery (DR) copy of your data, you can’t do better than the cloud from a major provider such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft or Apple. If you want robust computing (just like you want first rate photography), do what the professionals do, and it isn’t archiving on flash drives.
There are several problems with flash drives as ar... (show quote)

Thanks for the info TriX.
JackM

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May 19, 2021 18:18:44   #
11bravo
 
TriX wrote:
There are several problems with flash drives as archival storage. First, as noted, they are not physically robust. Second they are built with the least expensive TLC or QLC devices available (roughly 1/3 the cost of equivalent size SSDs) and one reason cheap devices are cheap is because of poor QA and they’re often using the reject devices that have so many defective cells that they’re not usable elsewhere. Third, because of their small size and reduced complexity, the don’t have room or the margins to include the advanced wear leveling and bad cell relocation “housekeeping” functions of an SSD. Fourth, being a NAND flash device, they are subject to data corruption from particles created by cosmic rays, defects that more sophisticated NAND Flash devices such as SSDs are able detect/correct. And finally, they are typically dog slow.

I have a jar full that I sometimes use for moving data between platforms, and like a previous poster, some have data that is still good after years last time I checked, but I’d never trust them for archive. You have to ask yourself why no commercial/enterprise IT organizations use them for archive if they are so reliable and cheap. If you want a reliable archive, for local storage, you can’t do better than MDisks, and for an off site disaster recovery (DR) copy of your data, you can’t do better than the cloud from a major provider such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft or Apple. If you want robust computing (just like you want first rate photography), do what the professionals do, and it isn’t archiving on flash drives.
There are several problems with flash drives as ar... (show quote)


Agreed. I have 1 that has data on it for over a decade. I've also had another that, used once, when tried to use again, completely unusable (Adata did replace) though the data (replaceable) was unrecoverable. Besides the memory, you also have the controller chip and just the physical plug that can be damaged by that ONE careless insert.

ANYTHING can and will fail... Moral of the story: for critical data, have another copy.

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May 19, 2021 18:22:08   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
TriX wrote:
There are several problems with flash drives as archival storage. First, as noted, they are not physically robust. Second they are built with the least expensive TLC or QLC devices available (roughly 1/3 the cost of equivalent size SSDs) and one reason cheap devices are cheap is because of poor QA and they’re often using the reject devices that have so many defective cells that they’re not usable elsewhere. Third, because of their small size and reduced complexity, the don’t have room or the margins to include the advanced wear leveling and bad cell relocation “housekeeping” functions of an SSD. Fourth, being a NAND flash device, they are subject to data corruption from particles created by cosmic rays, defects that more sophisticated NAND Flash devices such as SSDs are able detect/correct. And finally, they are typically dog slow.

I have a jar full that I sometimes use for moving data between platforms, and like a previous poster, some have data that is still good after years last time I checked, but I’d never trust them for archive. You have to ask yourself why no commercial/enterprise IT organizations use them for archive if they are so reliable and cheap. If you want a reliable archive, for local storage, you can’t do better than MDisks, and for an off site disaster recovery (DR) copy of your data, you can’t do better than the cloud from a major provider such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft or Apple. If you want robust computing (just like you want first rate photography), do what the professionals do, and it isn’t archiving on flash drives.
There are several problems with flash drives as ar... (show quote)


You left out one big one...because of their small size, they are easily misplaced.

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May 19, 2021 18:47:10   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
larryepage wrote:
You left out one big one...because of their small size, they are easily misplaced.


That too!

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May 19, 2021 19:37:38   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
trapper1 wrote:
I transferred all of my images from my computer to a thumb drive. When I call them up on the thumb drive, they appear as their digital title, not as images. I have not been able to find instructions on how to get them to come up as images rather than titles so would appreciate any advice on how to do this.


When you "call them up," what are you talking about? Are you talking about displaying the contents of a folder? If so, in Windows, click "View" from the tool bar and select the thumbnail size you want. On Apple, I have no idea, since I haven't used one in about 25 years.

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May 19, 2021 21:21:41   #
Billy Joe Bob Loc: Rio Grande, NM
 
FotoHog wrote:
I have used one flash drive for 10 years without any problem whatsoever. Some of the information has been on it from day one. I use and edit some saved data on it every day and love the convenience of having a small, handy, portable storage device for data I don't want on my computer. If you keep it in a secure place you will not have any problem.


I have started using M-disc for archival storage. It's a type of BluRay with 25 GB to 100 GB storage. Stated lifetime is 100 years

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May 20, 2021 10:18:49   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Billy Joe Bob wrote:
I have started using M-disc for archival storage. It's a type of BluRay with 25 GB to 100 GB storage. Stated lifetime is 100 years


👍👍 Right answer!

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May 20, 2021 10:26:33   #
FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9
 
Billy Joe Bob wrote:
I have started using M-disc for archival storage. It's a type of BluRay with 25 GB to 100 GB storage. Stated lifetime is 100 years

I did a bit of research on the virtues of flash drives and found a lot of muddy water. However, ordinary CD and DVD disks are said to be durable and safe storage devices.

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May 20, 2021 10:39:03   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
FotoHog wrote:
I did a bit of research on the virtues of flash drives and found a lot of muddy water. However, ordinary CD and DVD disks are said to be durable and safe storage devices.


Sorry, but they are at least as bad in terms of reliability (if a little harder to lose). Over the years, they can degrade. Commercially recoded disks are more robust (and I have three 200 disc changers filled with audio CDs), but home recorded ones (which use a different process) can develop errors or become unreadable over time. And yes, someone will come forward to mention that they have 10 year old DVDs that they recorded and are still good. I do too, but some degrade and some don’t, and from what I can tell, it doesn’t seem to be related to the manufacturer of the disk.And they are just too small for today’s large amounts of data. Instead, get a Blu Ray/MDisk drive and use MDisks. They are a different technology, and have been extensively tested by the DOD for archiving. They come in 100GB size, and are currently the most robust form of archive storage available.

I would add that LG makes both internal and external MDisk drives. I’ve been using an internal SATA connected LG drive for almost 10 years with excellent results. The cost is ~$45-60 depending on whether you need disk burning SW included. they burn Blu Ray as well as MDisks.

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May 20, 2021 11:03:12   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
TriX wrote:
Sorry, but they are at least as bad in terms of reliability (if a little harder to lose). Over the years, they can degrade. Commercially recoded disks are more robust (and I have three 200 disc changers filled with audio CDs), but home recorded ones (which use a different process) can develop errors or become unreadable over time. And yes, someone will come forward to mention that they have 10 year old DVDs that they recorded and are still good. I do too, but some degrade and some don’t, and from what I can tell, it doesn’t seem to be related to the manufacturer of the disk.And they are just too small for today’s large amounts of data. Instead, get a Blu Ray/MDisk drive and use MDisks. They are a different technology, and have been extensively tested by the DOD for archiving. They come in 100GB size, and are currently the most robust form of archive storage available.
Sorry, but they are at least as bad in terms of re... (show quote)


Commercially produced CDs and DVDs originally used a recording process which involved using a LASER to physically create pits on the surface, hence the term "burning a disc." But consumer-recorded discs are recorded by exposing a photosensitive dye to a much lower power LASER. So no, they are not considered archival. And rewritable CDs are potentially quite problematic. My dad has spent many hours scanning the transparencies documenting our family's history and saving them to CDs. One of my projects down the road (once I get hold of them) is to check the health of those CDs (there are a lot of them) and copy them to a more permanent medium.

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May 20, 2021 11:21:42   #
Rick0747
 
I used to keep my photos in separate categories by using separate USB flash drives as a filing system. They are inexpensive (as someone said) and easy to store. BUT I just spent $1,200 to a firm to get my photos off a "broken" USB flash drive. They told me the inner controller failed (maybe I am not using the correct terminology). The USB flash drive was a well known brand with a good reputation for quality. The firm was successful in retrieving all my photos but it was terrifying (they wouldn't guarantee any success) and a lesson learned. Now I use an external hard drive and DropBox.

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May 20, 2021 12:53:19   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Rick0747 wrote:
I used to keep my photos in separate categories by using separate USB flash drives as a filing system. They are inexpensive (as someone said) and easy to store. BUT I just spent $1,200 to a firm to get my photos off a "broken" USB flash drive. They told me the inner controller failed (maybe I am not using the correct terminology). The USB flash drive was a well known brand with a good reputation for quality. The firm was successful in retrieving all my photos but it was terrifying (they wouldn't guarantee any success) and a lesson learned. Now I use an external hard drive and DropBox.
I used to keep my photos in separate categories by... (show quote)


Sorry that lesson was so costly, but thanks for posting. Here’s hoping others learn from your (expensive) experience.

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May 20, 2021 15:39:56   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
Although some may pretend otherwise, USB flash drives are as secure as any other storage media. Just use a bit of common sense.

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May 20, 2021 16:27:29   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
jackm1943 wrote:
Can you enlighten me as to what the issues are? I was seriously considering a couple of 2T flash drives for archival storage but will hold off if there are major issues. Thanks.


Hold off. Forever. There are MAJOR issues.

There have been scam advertisements of 2TB flash drives out there for a couple years now. They DO NOT hold 2 TB, no matter what the computer might tell you about the space available. If you're lucky you can get a couple GB onto them before they start erasing old files to make room for new ones.

I would not say it's impossible to build a 2TB flash drive, but it won't be cheap. External hard drives are cheaper and more reliable for that volume of data.

And whatever you decide to do, follow the main rules for backup: Duplicate, Distribute, Validate.

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May 20, 2021 16:34:07   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
RWR wrote:
Although some may pretend otherwise, USB flash drives are as secure as any other storage media. Just use a bit of common sense.


The common sense would be to do what data storage professionals working for professional IT organizations do and that is NOT use Flash drives for backup or archive.

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