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Mirrorless - a different view
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Mar 27, 2021 18:20:39   #
shutterbob Loc: Tucson
 
I still use my DSLRs but have started shifting to mirrorless, not because I think they are better, but because I don't think it will be too long until it gets difficult to buy new lenses for them. The writing is on the wall; the manufacturers are all moving their resources in that direction. Development of nearly all things related to them has taken a back seat, not only money wise, but also in new technologies. I have noticed an improvement in lenses for mirrorless.....they are smaller, lighter, and seem to me to be a bit sharper. The kit 16-50 mm lens included with my z50 is one of my better lenses, and that includes my full frame, nano coated Nikons. So yeah, I somewhat agree. While I don't think the dslr is dead yet, I do believe they've got one foot on the proverbial banana peel.

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Mar 27, 2021 18:26:06   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
OOPS!

Canon and Sony made FOUR TIMES as many mirrorless cameras as Nikon in 2020. "Big 3" in context: Sony made 1.15 million mirrorless cameras, Canon made 1.05 million, Nikon made just 250,000.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-and-sony-made-four-times-as-many-mirrorless-cameras-as-nikon-in-2020

Now, does that mean Nikon knows their customers? Something else?

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Mar 27, 2021 19:03:36   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
pdsilen wrote:
I spent four years imassing a few DSLR cameras and a sizable collection of lenses and accessories. And I spent a bundle doing it. From photos that I have viewed comparing quality form DSLR to mirrorless, I see very little difference in the final result. So, I'll keep shooting DSLR for as long as I can.


With my DSLRs and lens collection it’s nice to hear someone saying something positive about DSLRs. I’m with you. I’ll stay with DSLRs.

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Mar 27, 2021 19:09:07   #
plumbbob1
 
I am on the verge of going mirrorless. Now that it seems there is no reason that I can't use my a mount lenses with an adapter.
To me, having a silent exposure for wild life photography is a good thing. Although the shutter noise didn't seem to matter in the past.
And, I'm hoping that there are some bonuses such advanced technology in other parts of the camera.
But, I've been happily satisfied with the enlargement quality of my current dslr. So far to a max of 24"x48".

But, in the final anyalsis, in the future it will be hard to find a DSLR to buy.

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Mar 27, 2021 19:14:55   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Hee haw...gotta love the dslr denial. It's entertaining to be sure.
There is a very good reason why the big three are discontinuing dslr glass...and not making new bodies anymore.
The D850 is the top of the line dslr...no doubt.
But the top of the line mirrorless... SMOKE that camera...with no end in sight.
Nikon isn't going to spend another R&D dime on dslr's...neither is Canon.
Sony..once again is ahead on that curve.


There is no denial from me. Fortunately, what I have will last longer than I will. Interestingly enough, I am in the midst of making arrangements around who will receive my kit when I no longer need or can use it sometime down the road. It will be going to a friend who does not care one bit that there are mirrors in every one of the bodies, just thrilled to receive everything. The issue with me has always and only been the completely unnecessary hype, foolishness, and cheerleading...whether for the top line DSLRs of 3-5 years ago that were purported to be the last word in cameras or the current "ultimate solutions," which very clearly are not that, regardless of what they may be.

What I am still waiting to see are some photographs that clearly and specifically demonstrate beyond discussion, and which do not include any reference to physically incompatible lenses which could theoretically produce superior results, exactly what a mirrorless can do beyond what any other camera can do. I'm not interested in situations where the new camera does anything that the old camera could have done if the photographer had spent a little bit of time reading, studying, understanding, and practicing. I am looking for some inherent new photographic capability not possible with the old technology. I am open to seeing it, I am open to accepting it. I do not care about anything related to "spray and pray," because I still believe that the ability to "capture the moment" is an intrinsic part of the art of photography. Resolution is not an issue, because it's not technology specific. So let's see it, and let's see it claimed.

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Mar 27, 2021 19:34:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
larryepage wrote:
There is no denial from me. Fortunately, what I have will last longer than I will. Interestingly enough, I am in the midst of making arrangements around who will receive my kit when I no longer need or can use it sometime down the road. It will be going to a friend who does not care one bit that there are mirrors in every one of the bodies, just thrilled to receive everything. The issue with me has always and only been the completely unnecessary hype, foolishness, and cheerleading...whether for the top line DSLRs of 3-5 years ago that were purported to be the last word in cameras or the current "ultimate solutions," which very clearly are not that, regardless of what they may be.

What I am still waiting to see are some photographs that clearly and specifically demonstrate beyond discussion, and which do not include any reference to physically incompatible lenses which could theoretically produce superior results, exactly what a mirrorless can do beyond what any other camera can do. I'm not interested in situations where the new camera does anything that the old camera could have done if the photographer had spent a little bit of time reading, studying, understanding, and practicing. I am looking for some inherent new photographic capability not possible with the old technology. I am open to seeing it, I am open to accepting it. I do not care about anything related to "spray and pray," because I still believe that the ability to "capture the moment" is an intrinsic part of the art of photography. Resolution is not an issue, because it's not technology specific. So let's see it, and let's see it claimed.
There is no denial from me. Fortunately, what I h... (show quote)


Show us the slowest shutter speed you can shoot with an unstabilized lens. Then, we'll show you a better version with IBIS at an even slower speed.

Show us your best work with a DSLR and a film-area manual focus lens focused only with the viewfinder. Then, we'll see if we can show you a better version using a manual focus lens and the details zoomed and focused using the EVF. Show us your LiveView focused version too. We'll show you a handheld image in equal or better sharp focus. Make sure to shoot with the aperture at f/5.6 or smaller.

Show us your highest ISO work with no additional noise processing. We'll find someone with a newest mirrorless release to show you better at an even higher ISO.

Show us a 20 fps burst from any of your DSLRs.

Have someone hold a cell phone over your shoulder and show us a capture of you busy 'reading' (trying to read) your DSLR's LCD in bright sun.

Show us your 8K video.

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Mar 27, 2021 19:35:01   #
wide2tele Loc: Australia
 
This is such a flashback to 20 years ago except it was film vs digital.
20 years on people are still happily using film. I think 20 years on from now people will still happily be using DSLR's. If my DSLR's last, I'll be one of them.
Digital had a big drawcard over film, cost. Mirrorless doesn't have this, it's the opposite, it has expense. I think DSLR users will remain mighty strong.

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Mar 27, 2021 20:37:16   #
Canisdirus
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
OOPS!

Canon and Sony made FOUR TIMES as many mirrorless cameras as Nikon in 2020. "Big 3" in context: Sony made 1.15 million mirrorless cameras, Canon made 1.05 million, Nikon made just 250,000.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-and-sony-made-four-times-as-many-mirrorless-cameras-as-nikon-in-2020

Now, does that mean Nikon knows their customers? Something else?


Yeah, I was being kind.
Nikon isn't in the big three anymore...I think they are 5th now...behind Panasonic and Fuji.

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Mar 27, 2021 20:44:24   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
Blah, blah, blah... why must we argue over what is best? MILC for some, DSLR for others, who cares what I prefer???
Cheers!

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Mar 27, 2021 21:27:55   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
larryepage wrote:
What I am still waiting to see are some photographs that clearly and specifically demonstrate beyond discussion, and which do not include any reference to physically incompatible lenses which could theoretically produce superior results, exactly what a mirrorless can do beyond what any other camera can do.

The photo below was taken with a mirrorless camera (DX) and 14mm lens. Lens angle of view is 90 degrees on the diagonal. Excusing my inability to center and hold the camera level, the photo is without barrel, pincushion or mustache distortion -- no distortion.

Using a DSLR and a lens made for the camera with the same 90 degree diagonal angle of view you can't take the same distortion free photo. Now you can say you've seen a photo that a mirrorless camera can take that a DSLR can't.


(Download)

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Mar 27, 2021 21:48:19   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Ysarex wrote:
The photo below was taken with a mirrorless camera (DX) and 14mm lens. Lens angle of view is 90 degrees on the diagonal. Excusing my inability to center and hold the camera level, the photo is without barrel, pincushion or mustache distortion -- no distortion.

Using a DSLR and a lens made for the camera with the same 90 degree diagonal angle of view you can't take the same distortion free photo. Now you can say you've seen a photo that a mirrorless camera can take that a DSLR can't.

Thank you for being willing to post this image and provide the explanation.
For what I photograph, it is not enough yet to move me, but it is real and I appreciate your willingness to share it.

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Mar 27, 2021 21:58:48   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
Ysarex wrote:
The photo below was taken with a mirrorless camera (DX) and 14mm lens. Lens angle of view is 90 degrees on the diagonal. Excusing my inability to center and hold the camera level, the photo is without barrel, pincushion or mustache distortion -- no distortion.

Using a DSLR and a lens made for the camera with the same 90 degree diagonal angle of view you can't take the same distortion free photo. Now you can say you've seen a photo that a mirrorless camera can take that a DSLR can't.


For me that wouldn't be a big plus since I post process RAW and lens distortion is easily corrected in post and also even in DSLRs you can set and tweak lens distortion compensation if you want. The biggest plus in my book for mirrorless would be focus peaking, eye AF and real time exposure preview - these are all benefits totally unique to mirrorless, as is quieter operation and faster fps generally (no flip-flopping mirror!)...but even those benefits are not compelling enough for me to dump the DSLR and buy mirrorless tomorrow....but maybe next week or next month!

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Mar 27, 2021 22:04:28   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
For me that wouldn't be a big plus since I post process RAW and lens distortion is easily corrected in post and also even in DSLRs you can set and tweak lens distortion compensation if you want. The biggest plus in my book for mirrorless would be focus peaking, eye AF and real time exposure preview - these are all benefits totally unique to mirrorless, as is quieter operation and faster fps generally (no flip-flopping mirror!)...but even those benefits are not compelling enough for me to dump the DSLR and buy mirrorless tomorrow....but maybe next week or next month!
For me that wouldn't be a big plus since I post pr... (show quote)


That's the spirit.

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Mar 27, 2021 22:20:27   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
larryepage wrote:
There is no denial from me. Fortunately, what I have will last longer than I will. Interestingly enough, I am in the midst of making arrangements around who will receive my kit when I no longer need or can use it sometime down the road. It will be going to a friend who does not care one bit that there are mirrors in every one of the bodies, just thrilled to receive everything. The issue with me has always and only been the completely unnecessary hype, foolishness, and cheerleading...whether for the top line DSLRs of 3-5 years ago that were purported to be the last word in cameras or the current "ultimate solutions," which very clearly are not that, regardless of what they may be.

What I am still waiting to see are some photographs that clearly and specifically demonstrate beyond discussion, and which do not include any reference to physically incompatible lenses which could theoretically produce superior results, exactly what a mirrorless can do beyond what any other camera can do. I'm not interested in situations where the new camera does anything that the old camera could have done if the photographer had spent a little bit of time reading, studying, understanding, and practicing. I am looking for some inherent new photographic capability not possible with the old technology. I am open to seeing it, I am open to accepting it. I do not care about anything related to "spray and pray," because I still believe that the ability to "capture the moment" is an intrinsic part of the art of photography. Resolution is not an issue, because it's not technology specific. So let's see it, and let's see it claimed.
There is no denial from me. Fortunately, what I h... (show quote)

All very good points Larry. I sure don’t want to throw away my DSLRS!!

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Mar 27, 2021 22:25:26   #
John Gerlach Loc: Island Park, Idaho
 
I felt that way about mirrorless cameras too. I teach photography because I enjoy it rather than retire, though, I could easily afford to do nothing - but too boring to consider that. I bought the Canon R5 mirrorless camera in November because more and more workshop participants were bringing them to workshops so I felt I should understand the mirrorless want-to-be cameras a little better. I have shot over 75,000 images with the R5 doing mostly wildlife and landscapes and never stopped using it. My other cameras sit in a spare photo bag unused and they are the Canon 1DX Mark III and the 5D Mark IV. All of my DSLRs are for sale and so are the lenses. My photography is better than ever with far better autofocus and numerous other advantages. I can't speak for other mirrorless cameras as I have not used them, but the Canon R5 is a huge game-changer for me. I would not have said this in early November last year, but now shooting a DSLR rather than the mirrorless R5 is about the same to me as giving up Microsoft word to go back to a top-of-the-line typewriter of the 1970 era. I know I will never buy a DSLR again unless they offer me the advantages of the mirrorless and I don't see that happening. Eventually, like the turmoil of switching from film to digital, DSLR shooters will likely move on to mirrorless!

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