Mirrorless - a different view (Page 8): Please excuse my ignorance, but, why can't one take the same photo of the zeiss lens with a dslr vs. a mirrorless?

fujiholic Loc: SE Tennessee

Please excuse my ignorance, but, why can't one take the same photo of the zeiss lens with a dslr vs. a mirrorless?

Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC

Wallen wrote:

We keep hearing the hubadubs that DSLR is dead. Ma... (show quote)

It's not about the camera as the technology in the camera and lens. The mirrorless have eye detection, smaller and superior lenses compared to their DSLR counterparts.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

jrm21 wrote:

The mirrorless vs DSLR vs whatever debate rages on. I see comments like the one quoted and feel like I am missing something.

Isn't a mirrorless a DSLR with an EVF instead of a mirror that let's you look through the lens? Both seem to create a digital file through the use of a sensor. Both are capable of producing the same exact image. Different sensors and newer technology aside, the only difference is the viewfinder?

No. A DSLR's auto focus system is integrated with the mirror. A mirrorless camera's auto focus system is integrated into the sensor. The DSLR's lens mount is necessarily about 25mm farther from the sensor.

jrm21 wrote:

Both DSLRs and "mirrorless" can produce ... (show quote)

Yes. The necessary increased lens mount to sensor distance in the DSLR compromises the design of wide lenses such that the wide lenses for mirrorless cameras are superior.

jrm21 wrote:

Can you tell from the resulting photo if it came from a mirrorless or DSLR?

In some specific cases yes -- the difference I noted in wide lenses can show in the photos.

jrm21 wrote:

Honest questions. I'm really trying to understand why this is a thing.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

fujiholic wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance, but, why can't one take the same photo of the zeiss lens with a dslr vs. a mirrorless?

You can take the same image, uncropped, with the same FF lens on a full-frame DSLR and on a MILC. I'm unsure if your question was clarifying another earlier post. Consider using the <Quote Reply> button when seeking to direct a comment or follow-up question to a specific member and / or prior post.

That 'same image' assumes you can mount the same lens to both camera types. One of the benefits of the mirrorless platform is the ability at adapt most any SLR (film) style lens to any of the various mirrorless mounts. You don't modify (destroy) the legacy lens. Rather, you use an adapter that places the legacy lens to the proper distance from the sensor as needed to focus to infinity. If you wanted that Zeiss SLR-style lens on Sony and Olympus and Canon, etc, you just need the target camera adapters. But, trying to move 'native' mirrorless lenses between mirrorless mounts is likely not possible, nor possible to take the mirrorless lens to an SLR / DSLR camera.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

fujiholic wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance, but, why can't one take the same photo of the zeiss lens with a dslr vs. a mirrorless?

You can't mount the Zeiss lens in the photo (https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-690459-1.html#12101896) on a DSLR. It would smash the mirror in an attempt. The Zeiss Biogon lens in that photo must be closer to the sensor than the mirror will allow. Forcing the lens farther out to clear the mirror will force a compromise in the lens design and you'll wind up with bigger, heavier, poorer performing lens.

ladysue Loc: Rhinebeck, NY

[quote=JRiepe]People claim their photography has improved since moving to mirrorless and their images are sharper. And since they are saying that I don't doubt them. Where I'm confused is why? I would like for them to let others know the reason why. Both DSLR's and mirrorless use lenses and sensors the same way so why would an image captured on a mirrorless sensor be sharper than one captured on a DSLR sensor?

My understanding is that the reason images from mirrorless cameras appear sharper than those from DSLRs is because of the removal of the anti-aliasing filter. This filter exists to do away with moire patterns but it adds another layer for the image to pass through. I believe the Canon 5d Mark 1V has a feature to disable the filter.

Miamark Loc: Florida

I have been shooting for over fifty years. I appreciate the technology but I still think that mirrorless is not a perfect solution yet. I do wish that I had face/eye detection in my D750; however, I never had any problem catching eyes or faces. I used to shoot with a Leica M-6. Best pictures that I ever took. Only electronic part was a meter but the camera worked fine without a battery.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

ladysue wrote:

My understanding is that the reason images from mirrorless cameras appear sharper than those from DSLRs is because of the removal of the anti-aliasing filter. This filter exists to do away with moire patterns but it adds another layer for the image to pass through. I believe the Canon 5d Mark 1V has a feature to disable the filter.

The anti-aliasing filter is a camera by camera decision by reach manufacturer, there's no universal way to apply this to mirrorless in general. What is more likely to contribute to the mirrorless visual improvements are:

1) Newest generation camera processors in the newest next generation mirrorless cameras.
2) Increased pixel resolution.
3) Newest / best of breed lenses released as native mirrorless lenses, improved at every focal length and aperture vs their corresponding DSLR version.
4) Improved autofocus precision of the mirrorless platform.

jrm21

For some reason, quote reply isn't working for this response.

Ysarex wrote:

Quote:

No. A DSLR's auto focus system is integrated with the mirror. A mirrorless camera's auto focus system is integrated into the sensor. The DSLR's lens mount is necessarily about 25mm farther from the sensor.

Does this make one autofocus system inherently better than the other? I'd _guess_ that mirrorless generally has the advantage in autofocus, if only because it is newer technology.

Quote:

Yes. The necessary increased lens mount to sensor distance in the DSLR compromises the design of wide lenses such that the wide lenses for mirrorless cameras are superior.

Quote:

In some specific cases yes -- the difference I noted in wide lenses can show in the photos.

So we have autofocus (potentially) and some wide angle applications where mirrorless provides an advantage.

Does DSLR provide any advantages over mirrorless?

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Mianark wrote:

I have been shooting for over fifty years. I appreciate the technology but I still think that mirrorless is not a perfect solution yet. I do wish that I had face/eye detection in my D750; however, I never had any problem catching eyes or faces. I used to shoot with a Leica M-6. Best pictures that I ever took.

So the best photos you ever took were taken with a mirrorless camera -- makes sense.

Mianark wrote:

Only electronic part was a meter but the camera worked fine without a battery.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

jrm21 wrote:

Does this make one autofocus system inherently better than the other? I'd _guess_ that mirrorless generally has the advantage in autofocus, if only because it is newer technology.

The DSLR auto focus system is mechanically more complicated and more prone to error. It requires more maintenance such that on Pro-level cameras the user needs to tune/calibrate the auto-focus system. Performance variations are pretty minor. Manual focus is another matter. The focus peaking functions in mirrorless cameras are a big benefit to manually focusing. When I do close-up macro work I much prefer having a mirrorless camera and manual focus.

jrm21 wrote:

So we have autofocus (potentially) and some wide angle applications where mirrorless provides an advantage.

Does DSLR provide any advantages over mirrorless?

Absolutely. The DSLR OVF. I still miss the OVF on my last DSLR -- the optical viewfinder is better; at least for me it was better. Nothing like walking into a room with fluorescent lights that cause a flicker in your camera's EVF. I'd much rather see my subject through an SLR OVF than through an EVF no matter how good the EVF.

So the change is a compromise and for some people it makes sense and for others it doesn't. The problem with threads like this is the polemists always assume that anyone who wants to involve themselves in photography in ways different than themselves don't matter. They see what works for them and so it must work for everyone.

I made the switch to my first mirrorless camera back in 2013. Now all my cameras are mirrorless. Because I do a lot of close-up work the manual focus advantage is enough for me to never go back. The wide lenses also mattered a lot to me but they may not to others. I can see where a wildlife photographer might want to hang onto their DSLR. I think I'd value the OVF much higher if I were a wildlife or sports photographer.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

Paul J. Svetlik wrote:

I will have to go with you, Wallen.
The image is my goal, whether it is taken with an f 0.45 super lens or a pinhole camera.

Catholics, Buddhists, Islamists - or Atheists?

Bbarn Loc: Ohio

redlegfrog wrote:

Don't forget CD's and Vinyl.
I know folks who sold their record collections for next to nothing because they didn't think they would be used in the future. Those who hung on to their records and players are glad they did.

Still have my turntable and several LPs. Never listen to them. Maybe it's time to sell that stuff to those who enjoy snap, crackle and pop. Maybe in 40 years people will be looking for vintage SLRs for the pleasure in hearing mirror slap.

Miamark Loc: Florida

As to an earlier part of this thread, you need to be careful about mounting DSLR lenses to a mirrorless camera. There basically was no issue as to mounting older lenses from the film days to a DSLR. You will note that there is an adapter for the Nikon film and DSLR cameras to Z series cameras. Nikon makes one that retains the auto function with adequate space for the rear lens mount. I use a Fotasy adaptor for my Nikon 85 f1.4 to Fuji; however, I lose the autofocus and some metering functions. It is a $20 solution to keep a great lens. As to mirrorless, I still am not comfortable with low light capabilities. I just bought my first strobe in years. We will see if that helps.

Miamark Loc: Florida

Further, I do not agree that the new lenses are superior. My Nikon lenses were great and I never heard of sample variation until recent years.