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Mirrorless - a different view
Mar 25, 2021 13:36:27 #
Wallen wrote:
... A mirrorless is basically a dumbed down video camera. They made it look like a DSLR so it can take its place. Instead of shooting video they made it shoot slower, then advertise that their camera shoots 20 frames per second!!! Faster than your DSLR!!! Yea right...
... The technology of the mirrorless has been around since the invention of the tv and are just getting repurposed. Innovation as some would say. It is not new, that is just hype. Don't buy into it.
... A mirrorless is basically a dumbed down video camera. They made it look like a DSLR so it can take its place. Instead of shooting video they made it shoot slower, then advertise that their camera shoots 20 frames per second!!! Faster than your DSLR!!! Yea right...
... The technology of the mirrorless has been around since the invention of the tv and are just getting repurposed. Innovation as some would say. It is not new, that is just hype. Don't buy into it.
First paragraph - So are DSLRs that shoot video also dumbed down video cameras? By your logic even dumber than the Mirrorless camera.
You are completely ignoring the ergonomics of the DSLR/Mirrorless cameras vs. the typical video camera - I shoot both and the DSLR/Mirrorless is much easier and faster to use and transport.
Second paragraph - you are just wrong on this one - TV was ANALOG tube technology and very power hungry and large at the beginning - try to fit that into a mirrorless camera.
Today’s digital TV technology has little in common with the earliest TV set-up except some legacy items necessary for the change over.
I do agree that DSLR technology is fading but because technological advances make a better camera possible.
Good-bye vibrations from mirror slap
Good-bye mirror lock up
Good-bye shutter shake
Hello to all those great legacy lenses
Hello to lighter, smaller cameras
I could go on
Mar 25, 2021 13:42:02 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
You’re a crazy fool if you think this contraption will ever displace the horse ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think autofocus has a place in professional photography ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think digital cameras will replace film ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think Americans will sit on their couch and order their shoes (groceries, books, clothes, etc) and have them delivered without ever trying them on ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think autofocus has a place in professional photography ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think digital cameras will replace film ...
You’re a crazy fool if you think Americans will sit on their couch and order their shoes (groceries, books, clothes, etc) and have them delivered without ever trying them on ...
LMAO! Being an infrequent hobbyist shooter with other things on my mind, I have always had some difficulty in remembering everything that goes into total control of a dslr in terms of knowing in advance everything I need to do in order to get the image out of the camera that I want and hence, have mostly resorted to using aperture preferred mode and letting the camera make some of the choices for me. With mirrorless, because I can see the image, and hence the exposure change as I twist the knobs in "M" mode, that alone makes a mirrorless worth much more than a dslr to me. I think a lot of dslr shooters who are using a mirrorless for the first time will be asking themselves what in the hell they've been thinking.
Mar 25, 2021 13:50:17 #
cactuspic
Loc: Dallas, TX
Sometimes hype is just that, hype. Sometimes however there is real substance beyond the confirmation bias, that makes us hold fast to our opinions regardless of the reality. Wallen, you asked a specific question about focusing in burst mode. Having shot both the 5D MarkIV and the RF 5, I can say that a much higher percentage of my shots were in focus with the R5, despite the much higher frame rate. Of those "in focus", a higher percentage were in perfect eye focus with the R5. Although I can't quantify it, I think the R5 also acquires focus faster. This has obvious benefits for both birds in flight as well as capturing those little flitty bitty birds that never seem to stand still long enough....Coupled with the extended stops of image stabilization, it has relegated my tripod to macro and other specialty shooting. The additional pixel density is important, particularly when we can't fill the frame.
I just spent a week shooting birds on Sanibel Island, finally putting the R5 to some extended usage. I am more excited about the R5 now than in the months when I was eagerly awaiting delivery of my camera. It is difficult to look back at a successful image and say without the R5 I could not have otherwise gotten that image. It just seems to me that I have gotten a higher percentage of killer images and have gotten images in more difficult situations than in the past.
Everyone's shooting patterns, practices and goals are different and the value we derive from certain features will be consequently different. That said, I think the R5 is a major qualitative upgrade over any of Canon's DSLRs. Whether you find the upgrades significant or worth paying for is a valid question. But that is very different than downgrading features such as the the R5's eyefocus feature without having tried the R5. For anybody who is fence sitting, I hope you try this camera soon. In this case, seeing has made a believer out of me.
I just spent a week shooting birds on Sanibel Island, finally putting the R5 to some extended usage. I am more excited about the R5 now than in the months when I was eagerly awaiting delivery of my camera. It is difficult to look back at a successful image and say without the R5 I could not have otherwise gotten that image. It just seems to me that I have gotten a higher percentage of killer images and have gotten images in more difficult situations than in the past.
Everyone's shooting patterns, practices and goals are different and the value we derive from certain features will be consequently different. That said, I think the R5 is a major qualitative upgrade over any of Canon's DSLRs. Whether you find the upgrades significant or worth paying for is a valid question. But that is very different than downgrading features such as the the R5's eyefocus feature without having tried the R5. For anybody who is fence sitting, I hope you try this camera soon. In this case, seeing has made a believer out of me.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:00:25 #
dsmeltz wrote:
So you missed the silent mode available in many mirrorless cameras that wedding photographers seem to love?
Yes - I use electronic shutter in my Pan GX8 to avoid SS - but I dial in some noise - I like to hear that the shutter did it's thing.
Mar 25, 2021 14:01:07 #
wdross
Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
Wallen wrote:
We keep hearing the hubadubs that DSLR is dead. Ma... (show quote)
New technology replaces the old. How many professionals grade film cameras are being made and sold today? None. Mirrorless is the new technology and eventually will replace the older DSLR technology. Buggy whips use to be a very good business back in the travel days of horses, buggys, and carts. And buggy whips are still being used today for horses, buggys, and carts just like film for film cameras. It is just that the markets are now minor compared to enormous car and truck market and growing mirrorless market.
What we are somewhat dealing with here is the fear or concern of obsolescence. When Olympus announced the sale of 90% of their camera division and partnership with JIP, many said "sell your equipment now while you can get some value". But I really didn't worry because it was 4/3rds and it is interchangeable with other 4/3rds. It is similar to when Olympus went digital but they were able to accommodate the use of the older film lenses. This is not always possible for all brands. This strikes a fear of obsolescence of the equipment. I realize that at some point in the future, Olympus, and possible all present photo equipment, may not exist and/or replaced by even newer technology (like the developing flat lens technology; that has the potential of making the whole back side of the smartphone a zoom lens). When obsolescence of Olympus and all other cameras happens, I will keep some of my old technology (like I did with my film cameras) and then move on to the next technology.
Mar 25, 2021 14:02:02 #
Mar 25, 2021 14:04:40 #
As an occasional elderly shooter, I find the 5 axis VR in my Nikon Z7 mirrorless grants to me more keepers shooting hand held and 4-5 more stops. Had that feature been in the D850, I probably wouldn't have jumped to mirrorless right away.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:20:44 #
NikonRocks wrote:
When I put my D500 into Live View mode, don't I ha... (show quote)
So, with a d500 you can set mode "M" and watch the exposure change in real time before hand on the lcd when you turn a knob or spin a wheel to change aperture, shutter speed, or iso? I haven't touched a d500 so I'm asking? I cannot do that on my Canon dslrs but they're a little older by now.
Mar 25, 2021 14:30:34 #
Miamark
Loc: Florida
I do not believe that DSLRs are dead. I was in a camera store the other day and a person was trading in his z6 for a Nikon D780. I made the mistake of selling my D750 with lenses. There is no comparison in speed and low light photography between the cameras. He and I both shoot people and action photography. I shoot more street photography. In my humble opinion, the death of DSLRs is premature. .
Mar 25, 2021 14:31:19 #
Well put, Wallen. The pricing of the mirrorless cameras is my only complaint. Mechanically, the mirrorless is about the same as my wife's point and shoot so, other than $$$, no excuse.
Ed
Ed
Mar 25, 2021 14:38:55 #
DonVA
Loc: British Columbia and New Mexico
An SLR is a film camera. A DSLR is an SLR with a sensor where the film used to be, a hybrid. It is a step up from the film camera but it retains all the machinery that was necessary for film but is superfluous for digital. The mirrorless camera is not a gimmick, it is the logical next step to enable digital photography to reach its full potential.
Don
Don
Mar 25, 2021 14:43:51 #
Ysarex
Loc: St. Louis
Mianark wrote:
I do not believe that DSLRs are dead. I was in a camera store the other day and a person was trading in his z6 for a Nikon D780. I made the mistake of selling my D750 with lenses. There is no comparison in speed and low light photography between the cameras.
Low light performance has nothing to do with SLR versus mirrorless.
Mianark wrote:
He and I both shoot people and action photography. I shoot more street photography. In my humble opinion, the death of DSLRs is premature. .
Mar 25, 2021 14:49:25 #
Wallen wrote:
We keep hearing the hubadubs that DSLR is dead. Ma... (show quote)
Don't forget CD's and Vinyl.
I know folks who sold their record collections for next to nothing because they didn't think they would be used in the future. Those who hung on to their records and players are glad they did.
Mar 25, 2021 14:53:07 #
Urnst
Loc: Brownsville, Texas
CHG_CANON wrote:
Take Nikon, they made the mouth / throat of their new Z-mount wider by 8mm from 47mm to 55mm. For all mirrorless cameras, the lens sits closer to the sensor because space is not needed inside the camera for the flipping mirror between the lens and sensor. Example, Canon went from 44mm 'flange' to 20mm. Both changes allow for larger (wider) glass in the rear of the lens, offering potential lens designs, especially at wide apertures, that were not technically possible for SLR-based lenses.
That short post explains succinctly a subject I hadn't really understood before. Thanks
Mar 25, 2021 14:58:09 #
Wallen wrote:
A mirrorless is basically a dumbed down video camera.
The mirrorless vs DSLR vs whatever debate rages on. I see comments like the one quoted and feel like I am missing something.
Isn't a mirrorless a DSLR with an EVF instead of a mirror that let's you look through the lens? Both seem to create a digital file through the use of a sensor. Both are capable of producing the same exact image. Different sensors and newer technology aside, the only difference is the viewfinder?
Both DSLRs and "mirrorless" can produce video. Calling something like the Canon R5 or Sony A7siii a "dumbed down video camera" is more than incorrect. They may have fewer features than some of the more expensive cinema cameras from those companies. Versus a consumer or prosumer video camera, these newer models are video on steroids. Many are on the Netfilx approved production list, since they are more than suitable for commercial production work.
...and they are also used by "pros" to take amazing photos. That's not to say the same pro couldn't produce the same photo with a DSLR or film camera.
Aside from viewfinder, is there a technical difference in DSLR and mirrorless that has an impact on the end result? Can you tell from the resulting photo if it came from a mirrorless or DSLR?
Honest questions. I'm really trying to understand why this is a thing.
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