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Artistic interpretation?
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Feb 18, 2021 00:00:49   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
Any time the bride is not the center of attention and the most important element, the photo is a loss.

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Feb 18, 2021 00:02:03   #
Cheese
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I’ve just noticed there are certain types if people who don’t understand art.



Did they hire you as wedding photographer, or wedding artist?

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Feb 18, 2021 00:08:17   #
Dossile
 
Sounds like you have previous wedding shoots with happy brides. This time a bride didn’t like your style and is complaining. Learn from it and move on. Give them the photos for cost. Offer to do some additional free shots of the couple with a higher f stop and no bokeh. (I like occasional bokeh in non studio portraits). Work on buying a camera with a better dynamic range. Use both bodies. Get a great flash with a diffuser for the odd job where the lighting is horrible. If you like doing weddings and have had success, learn from this and move forward. A lot of good suggestions here. This is part of dealing with the public and part of being a professional. She chose you and your style and now regrets it. It’s not the end of the world for either the bride or you. Learn and move on. Who knows, she might mature in her tastes and come to like them.

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Feb 18, 2021 00:14:57   #
Steven Loc: So. Milwaukee, WI.
 
Photographer, I left my paints and brushes at home .

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Feb 18, 2021 00:34:16   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
fotoman150 wrote:

I shot a real quick wedding (due to Covid)....



The bride didn’t like the photos.... groom in focus with the bride out of focus.... flowers in focus and her out of focus....blurry and out of focus...people who don’t understand art ...his face cut off showing just his chin...he called me at the last minute....He liked the bokeh but she did not... he is a lawyer....

WOW - talk about a recipe for disaster!! Don't worry. The photos are headed for the trash in a couple of months - after the divorce !!!

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Feb 18, 2021 00:42:38   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
Solution - go Sony. Sony's have a facial recognition setting. You program in the bride's face and give her priority #1. It will pick her out a crowd or busy scene, follow her around the room and focus on her face every time. Make Mother of the Bride #2 and groom's ex girlfriend #243 (after the dog) and you will never hear another complaint.

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Feb 18, 2021 06:10:56   #
chfrus
 
The Wuhan Flu, thank you China.

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Feb 18, 2021 06:16:38   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I’ve just noticed there are certain types if people who don’t understand art.


Yes, you are right. It is mostly photographers with wanting to be more than what they are. Ego gratification. You should spend more time understanding your client's needs and not your left brain vs right brain evaluation because you did a poor job taking their pictures and one or both are not happy

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Feb 18, 2021 08:06:14   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
WORDS, words and more words! You'd think this is a literary forum or an essay contest instead of a PHOTOGRAPHY forum! It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words but here we have thousands of words trying to describe pictures- at least in this thread.

What's worse is folks here are assuming that the OP did a poor job- suppose he did not? Maybe they are terrible? Maybe the bride had expectations that were impossible to achieve under the circumstances? I have no idea. So, my suggestion to the OP, if he wants a fair assessment of what he did, is TO POST SOME OF THE IMAGES IN QUESTION!

Some years ago there was a case, a lawsuit, that prompted the P.P of A. to launch its indemnity for a non-performance insurance plan for member photographers. Some pros signed up just to buy the insurance at a reasonable premium. The wedding client sued the photographer claiming that the pictures that their professional photographer made at their posh, elaborate and costly wedding (somethg like $100,000 to put on the event) were DISTORTED AND GROTESQUE! They sued for an enormous amount of damages! Usually in civil cases involving "art", in this case "artistic photography" the judge does not make judgments of competence or performance without expert witnesses. The judge, even a jury is not necessarily versed in "art" or even what is an acceptable standard in certain situations or industries.

Well, it seems that the CREATIVE artist-photographer shot most of the image with ultra-wide-wide lenses and fisheye lenses. He claimed he wanted to work in close to all the activities and capture an "intimate" view of the guests relating to the couple- not distant views with condensed perspectives, etc. The couple charged that the wedding pictures were a collection of grotesque caricatures of their close friends and relatives as well as the bridal party. The judge took one look at the "album" and agreed that the images were not a reasonable likeness of the participants in the wedding and awarded significant damages. The judge stated that even any layman can see that this was far from the coveager of a traditional event. On top of that, the couple did not see any of this super-wide and fisheye stuff in the photographer's portfolio. The photographer claimed that it was a unique artistic approach that he spontaneously decide upon. Go figure!

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Feb 18, 2021 10:40:42   #
montephoto
 
I noticed you did not attempt to answer any of my questions (again listed below for ease and clarity)

I am just REALLY curious. Are you a professional? Amateur? Your personal info doesn't say.

You used an 85mm f/1.4 lens for most of the images? Did you select this lens because of the wide aperture, or because you like the bokeh?

Using an 85mm lens for "most" of the images, were you able to get full length images that show ALL of the bride's gown?

What was the ISO setting that you did use on the images you took?

Were you able/not able to use a tripod?

Someone asked, but you did not respond: Did you use a flash on any of the images? (ANSWERED: You do not like flash.) But what about using multiple flash?

NEW QUESTION: Do you know how to use flash? Multiple flash?

Could you post a sample of one or two (feel free to block their face to hide identity. I understand not showing their faces without absolute written permission)

I am waiting to hear your replies.

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Feb 18, 2021 11:19:37   #
pendennis
 
camerapapi wrote:
Why didn't you use flash? It would have given you the flexibility of using apertures like f8 to make more pleasing images to her. I perfectly understand that she knows nothing about photography but you also have to understand that for a majority of people the images have to be well in focus or they are not acceptable for them. You cannot use your interpretation of art to please others.


Spot on!!!

I shot weddings for around 20 years, and the prime requirement by the customers was the desire to have well-lit, posed, and sharply-focused photos. Yes, the bride is the centerpiece of the wedding, but she also has to understand the limits of what photography can accomplish. Yes, I could have blemishes retouched, eyes opened, and other improvements. However, I always did my reconnoitering of the church and reception locations before I had a final sit down with the bride and groom so they absolutely understood my capabilities. They also saw a fairly broad portfolio so they could make a relatively sound judgement of my talents.

The prime "weapon" in my arsenal was artificial light provided by electronic flash. My favorites in the 70's were the Honeywell Strobonars starting with the 700, right on up through the 880 class. I also used a small studio set up on location to get more artistic shots of the bride. The sanctuary and reception photos were always well-lit, and I never shot wide open apertures. I had been taught by a pro to use the old Weegee maxim of "f/11 and be there!" Shallow D-O-F also increases the chance of focus errors. A bit off at f/8 or f/11 can be salvaged. There were also available light opportunities, and I always used them when possible.

Yes, I had my share of "Bridezilla", but I was far more likely to deal with brides who were happy to have great photos of a one-time event. I did turn down business from Bridezillas, because I frankly didn't want the grief. And written into the contract, was a statement in which I retained all images shot by me, including the negatives. When I retired, I offered those negatives to clients, but never had a bite.

Over the years, I probably spent more on lighting than cameras. The folks at Speedotron, Lumedyne, and Quantum were lifesavers.

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Feb 18, 2021 11:22:58   #
ecommons
 
I understand your artistic style, but when you are doing a shoot of this nature, you shoot what the client wants. You can shoot both artistic and realistic and show both to the client. Some clients may like both shots. This was "your" client's special day. You had an obligation to your client.

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Feb 18, 2021 13:20:32   #
fotoman150
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
The misconception continues Gottalaugh or I'm gonn cry!

Let's say for argument sake that the BRIDE is the star of the show. Well- all the marketing in the wedding industry is directed at the bride- ever see a Modern Groom Magazine" or a Groomal fair? they only have Bridal fairs! The groom is important as well and although parts and elders are not as involved in wedding planning as they used to be, they are all potential clients to satisfy and stimulate sales.

Regardless of that, most brides and grooms are not interested in the technicalities of photograhy, unless that is if they are enthusiasts or professional photographers themselves. They couldn't usually care less about flas usage, how bokeh is formed, or what make and type of equipment you use. If you rrepreset yourself as a professional, most folks will assume you have and use the right gear and you know how to use it. Folk respond to the way they appear in the images and the emotional content of those pictures.

I love available and existing light when it is available and when it exists. Otherwise, it's FLASH to the rescue. I lean to use multiple flashes at the wedding as a teenager- that was my first job as an assistant- manning the off-camera flash at the end of a monopod and I had to learn exactly where to place it while working on the fly. My mobile light could be the main light, a kicker, a light to extend the range of the on-camera flash to defeat the inverse square law. I was taught all the classic lighting forms at the studio- butterfly, loop, Rembrandt. split. kicker, background and hair lighting and learned to replicate all of these quickly by watching the photographer's movements, anticipating his actions and estimating the distance and placement in seconds- and all that with no modelling lights!. That how I learned how to shoot!

In a dark church or reception venue, I can't shoot everything at wide-open apertures and have little or no depth of field or run up the ISO to extremely nosy levels so I employ flash and these flash shots are no flat washed-out images with overexposed foregrounds and black-hole backgrounds. Some exposures are entirely flash dependent and others are blended perfectly with natural light and none of them have the telltale earmarks of poorly applied flash photography. If false is prohibited during the ceremony, I make do with available light and fine that a bit of "grain" or noise has an ethereal effect. At least, I can usually use my flash for the procession and the recessional!

Common sense check: If, If, may the Universe forbid, if you have to do a wedding re-shoot, you can just redo the formal portraits if the original set was unsatisfactory.

Quickie weddings? Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack jump over the candlestick! Sorry about that but you know what just burns my backside? A 3-foot candle AND hastily planned weddings. Those can be a nightmare and a minefield to cover. If you only have a very short window of opportunity to shoot, you better be nimble and quick and have all your ducks in line. Even if the entire ceremony and reception take only one hour, why not tell the folks to spend another hour with you so, at least they will have a lifelong remembrance of the day regardless of the brevity of the event.

Peace to all. Stay safe, mask up, wash your hands, avoid riots and come out at the other end of Covid in good health and ready to resume life!
The misconception continues img src="https://stati... (show quote)


Thanks for that. Good info.

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Feb 18, 2021 13:21:44   #
fotoman150
 
pendennis wrote:
Spot on!!!

I shot weddings for around 20 years, and the prime requirement by the customers was the desire to have well-lit, posed, and sharply-focused photos. Yes, the bride is the centerpiece of the wedding, but she also has to understand the limits of what photography can accomplish. Yes, I could have blemishes retouched, eyes opened, and other improvements. However, I always did my reconnoitering of the church and reception locations before I had a final sit down with the bride and groom so they absolutely understood my capabilities. They also saw a fairly broad portfolio so they could make a relatively sound judgement of my talents.

The prime "weapon" in my arsenal was artificial light provided by electronic flash. My favorites in the 70's were the Honeywell Strobonars starting with the 700, right on up through the 880 class. I also used a small studio set up on location to get more artistic shots of the bride. The sanctuary and reception photos were always well-lit, and I never shot wide open apertures. I had been taught by a pro to use the old Weegee maxim of "f/11 and be there!" Shallow D-O-F also increases the chance of focus errors. A bit off at f/8 or f/11 can be salvaged. There were also available light opportunities, and I always used them when possible.

Yes, I had my share of "Bridezilla", but I was far more likely to deal with brides who were happy to have great photos of a one-time event. I did turn down business from Bridezillas, because I frankly didn't want the grief. And written into the contract, was a statement in which I retained all images shot by me, including the negatives. When I retired, I offered those negatives to clients, but never had a bite.

Over the years, I probably spent more on lighting than cameras. The folks at Speedotron, Lumedyne, and Quantum were lifesavers.
Spot on!!! br br I shot weddings for around 20 ye... (show quote)


Come to think of it they probably wouldn’t of cared if I used flash even if it looked Gerrish probably was the best thing to do.

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Feb 18, 2021 13:35:12   #
BigDogGuy
 
I have heard a professional photographer friend state several times the most satisfying day of his life was when he decided to drop wedding photography. When I mentioned that during a conversation with another photographer he said for him it would be a toss-up between dropping wedding photography and finally getting rid of his time-share.

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