photostephen

Malicious Compliance Idea.
For all the Outtakes, create an Lightroom Export just for the Outtakes.
In this export, add a watermark (big watermark) maybe diagonal across the entire photo with "OUTTAKE" over it.

Additionally, you can add a color-cast or modify the exposure to reduce the quality.

Of course, only provide in JPG, not RAW format.

Just being compliant with an evil streak.

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

That’s a good question and is probably between the photographer and the client. When my kids got married, they got wedding albums with pictures they selection from proofs the photographer showed them (their best work). Now, my grandkids are getting married and they only want the images on a disc. My granddaughter’s photographer put the photos on a disc and as a bonus, “enhanced” a few that he picked out. The original and the enhanced were both on the disc. Some of the ones he picked, I wouldn’t have picked so it was nice to have access to the rest of the images. BTW, there were no BAD images on the disc, so I’m sure those were culled out (and not missed). My granddaughter picked her favorite pic, had it printed and turned it into a “canvas” herself using something like decoupage. I picked out many favorites and made her a scrapbook. Also, I was able to edit the images.

Pictures on a disc seems to be a trend for the younger generation to save money. I think they are missing the boat by not having an album. I still have my wedding album and I treasure it. We would never have questioned the photographer as to the pictures he presented to us for selection in our album!!

Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA

Interesting. Firstly as a long time creative businesses owner don't put more
confusion in pitching and contracting image work on paper. In this world that has
become so over wrought with legal and complication just give them the
pix. You could ask if they want to go through the garbage from the food
at the wedding event. You could say let me send some of the so so outs
to you.You don't want to see bad exposures and my thumb in front
of the lens. Or maybe the beautiful bride raised her leg to high
for the garter ceremony and showed more then she had in mind.
I worked in the ad business for years as a creative director, art director
and we sometimes showed 4 or 5 of the best takes. We didn't show
all the photos. In this case give them the shots and move on.
Good luck stay safe.

joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA

Yeah, why would they have hired you in the first place if they want to second guess you? Who's the photographer? Them - or you? Well, they chose, so they need to put their trust in you, like the others who have helped your business thrive for X-amount of years

mikee

As the consumer, if I pay you for 4 hours work, then I expect every photo on the disc over that 4 hours. I paid you to work for me for 4 hours, and I expect all of your work product for that time. If I pay you for 12 hours of post processing and you touch up 80 of those pics, fine. If I want to do something to the others, that should be my prerogative.

If, in advance, you present me with a contract that states otherwise, then I'd just go elsewhere to get the service I'm looking for. As I understand it from talking with Nat. Geo. photographers, when they are paid to go on assignment, the publication got EVERY frame in return. Sounds fair.

goldstar46 Loc: Tampa, Fl

=====================================================

Mikee

I have also worked directly with Net Geo employees...
....It all boils down to "what is in the four corners of the contract" or the agreement...

... The agreement can be 'Anything the two parties want' and/or what the verbal contract agreement is
... YES, verbal contracts are much, much harder to enforce and/or adhere to... BUT, they are still contracts

If you stipulate in the agreement the following: "... if I pay you for 4 hours work, then I expect every photo on the disc over that 4 hours. I paid you to work for me for 4 hours,..." Then, that is what you should get... That is called a 'Contract'...

AND, the parties can make the elements of the contract anything they want


Cheers
GeoVz
####

CPR Loc: Nature Coast of Florida

To me "Event Photography" is very different from "artistic" photography. I give all shots taken at events because it's about "Did Uncle Fred show up?" so I shoot high shots, crowd shots and everything that may include people. Those are the "candids" and the client gets them. The good stuff defines my skill.

goldstar46 Loc: Tampa, Fl

===============================

CPR...

I would suggest that 'all candid shots' and 'wedding shots' are... YES, two different animals..

Case in point... You do one of your "Event Photography" sessions... and some bozo get a 'hair up his Axx' that he wants to either 'give you the finger' or... maybe 'Aunt Hellen' accident has a portion of the center of her best exposed at the wrong time by accident... or, Uncle Harry decides to turn around and give you the 'moon shot'... ha ha ha........ NOW, that is an "Event Photo Session"

AND, yes... it has happened to me... with one of the principal individuals giving me the finger in the show... LOL

......... BUT, it still boils down to what's in the four corners of the agreement....

Cheers
GeoVz
###

BebuLamar

I don't think the OP was hired by the hours. He was hired by the job not the hours.
For example when I work for a company which contract to to jobs for others. My employer pays me hourly rate which is fixed and doesn't matter if I produce anything in those hours but anything I produced belongs to them including my the programs that I created. But for the company that contracted us to automate their production line we have to deliver to them a working process as per contract. Whatever we create during that time including those that we created for testing don't belong to them.
So if the client hired you strictly for the hours and want to own any creations that you made during that period would have to pay you if you don't deliver anything and even crash their stuff.

Cameraman

Hi:

I have been doing this for 15 years and covered more than 500 events so far. I always tell the client that I will process all the photos and give them all these photos on a DVD or on a memory stick. When I process the photos, I delete any that are duplicates or for some reason not up to my standard. None of them even know that I have deleted a few photos. I always take a lots and lots of photos so my file of selected photos is so large that no one can think I have deleted any photos.

Of course the file I deliver has all the photos renumbered in Bridge (part of Photoshop).

I would never agree to give any client any photo I believe is not good in my opinion.

I have heard of cases when one client (not mine) had posted bad photos to bad mouth the photographer. This happens rarely but why take a chance?

Cameraman

gouldopfl

Aren't there always outtakes? I am not a wedding photographer however if you give them outtakes what is the worth of your work. Many weddings no longer use photographers because they want to have total control.

I am in my mid 60's and when we got married 45 years ago we had our photos taken by a professional food photographer. The shots were very nice but the paper was not of a good quality and the photos are not in great shape. I wish now we had someone who would have taken better care in post processing and printing

bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada

I had this same discussion with the wedding photographer at our son's wedding. I asked for and received ALL of the RAW photographs, not just the ones the photographer thought were worthy. Some of his discards were great pictures that will add some comedy to the day. I might add that all his pictures were top quality.

I will be postprocessing and printing all the pictures and picture books from the wedding to save a bit on cost and to get exactly what we want.

All the above was discussed and agreed upon prior to the photographer undertaking the job to be sure everyone was on the same page!

bwa

lensmaster Loc: Chicago

1. I would explain that as a Professional you have the best experience in editing/retouching and they should trust you.
2. They paid for your TIME/EXPERIENCE/PROFESSIONALISM.

3. When they have surgery they don't ask for the 'parts' to be returned so perhaps they can do a better job...do they?

4. When or if all of that fails I would tell them "if you want the 'entire' shoot it will cost an additional 100% of the bill. See how bad they want the images then. I would not care if that pissed them off since I seriously doubt they will hire you again anyway. And, if they tried would you really want to deal with them once more???

5. Remember, you still have the power to edit out what you don't want to give them even if they insist on getting 'all' the photos. Unless you physically give them your computer or external drive YOU have control over those images, good or bad, and what they will get.

lensmaster Loc: Chicago

YES....your answer is that you DELETED all the bad photos.
Let them deal with that.

Virgil Loc: The Hoosier State

I'm not a pro but I would not want pictures that didn't turn out right to be circulating in the general public!!