CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Good luck is when opportunity meets preparation, while bad luck is when the wrong camera meets reality.

jjtotten Loc: Washington, Utah

You hit the nail right on the head of the problem in Japan with the cost of living. Having lived there for seven years I am very familiar with it. The people who get the greatest shock are those who come from Brazil because they see the high wages on the internet and plan to work in the automotive industry, 35,000 in both Toyota and Hamamatsu. The problem for them shows up because they don't look at the cost of living and many of them have a hard time every returning home because of your suggestion about the cost of living.

The second challenge is that because of the fact that Japan discriminates against so many things not Japanese and so those who come from other countries never get promoted and work as grunts the whole time they are there. All the supervisor jobs are of course held by Japanese.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Americans must be taking over Nikon management then? A true kiss of corporate death if there ever was one.

baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA

Agreed - this CHG_CANON guy is and has always been a Canon shill. He's probably just mad that the Z mount and lenses are superior to the Canon RF - the 70-200 S beating the Canon RF 70-200 and now the 50 1.2S being reviewed better than the Canon RF 50 1.2.

Almost everything Nikon that I have bought in the last 5 years was built in Thailand or China and the build quality remains better than Canon - quality build is a factor of quality control and nothing else - there is no magic to building something on one piece of dirt over another - quality control is everything and Nikon's is very good - even in Thailand or China.

Cutting costs by not paying outrageous Japanese prices makes sense. Nikon has already stated that although they expected to lose money this year and it to be even worse due to Covid that with the D780 and now the Z6/7 II they have been doing better than even they projected - so they are already on an upward trend - combine this with cutting costs and they are moving very much in the right direction.

pego101

Nonsense. Will help nikon and remove the Japanese video restrictions.

joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA

Yeah... Sad. And we have seen the end of many things - in this generation especially!

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Just curious how you know that the build quality of Nikon is superior to Canon or what evidence you have that the Z mount and lenses are superior to the RF mount and lenses. I’m always willing to learn, so please post some links.

Whether you like Paul’s comments or not (and in the event you missed it, most are meant in jest), his posted images are all that need be said. Maybe you might post a few of yours?

pego101

I have had both Canon and nikon and nikon is superior

CO

Exactly correct. Nikon expert, Ken Rockwell discussed this in one of his articles:

50 years ago it was important to see where an item was made.

Today it makes no difference if your camera is made in Japan or Thailand or Malaysia or China. Of course I prefer Made in Germany or Swiss Made for emotional reasons, but at any similar price point it no longer matters.

What matters is the brand and how much you paid. Each manufacturer and the competitive marketplace works long and hard to ensure that whatever you get is as good as it can be for the price. The manufacturer has to make the hard choices of where to build or contract for a factory so you don't have to.

As explained to me by a reader who's been to these factories all over southeast Asia, the factories moved into China are typically near-exact duplicates, with the 50 years ago it was important to see where an item was made.

Today it makes no difference if your camera is made in Japan or Thailand or Malaysia or China. Of course I prefer Made in Germany or Swiss Made for emotional reasons, but at any similar price point it no longer matters.

What matters is the brand and how much you paid. Each manufacturer and the competitive marketplace works long and hard to ensure that whatever you get is as good as it can be for the price. The manufacturer has to make the hard choices of where to build or contract for a factory so you don't have to.

As explained to me by a reader who's been to these factories all over southeast Asia, the factories moved into China are typically near-exact duplicates, with the same equipment and processes and standards, as used in Japan. The only difference is the people watching the production lines. Local management is Japanese. Typically, the more expensive and larger profit margin products are made in Japan and moved to China as time passes and profit margins thin.

This same reader learned from his talks with Japanese management that the defect rate in Chinese factories is routinely better than Japanese factories. He personally noted that the Chinese workers were much more focused on their work than in other countries. For instance, when walking into a Chinese factory, assembly line personnel quickly glanced up from their work to see that a Gweilo (him) had entered the factory floor. Once seen they got a glimpse, they almost immediately returned their attention to their work. In other factories outside of China, he noticed workers typically allowed their attention to wander for very long periods of time., as used in Japan. The only difference is the people watching the production lines. Local management is Japanese. Typically, the more expensive and larger profit margin products are made in Japan and moved to China as time passes and profit margins thin.

This same reader learned from his talks with Japanese management that the defect rate in Chinese factories is routinely better than Japanese factories. He personally noted that the Chinese workers were much more focused on their work than in other countries. For instance, when walking into a Chinese factory, assembly line personnel quickly glanced up from their work to see that a Gweilo (him) had entered the factory floor. Once seen they got a glimpse, they almost immediately returned their attention to their work. In other factories outside of China, he noticed workers typically allowed their attention to wander for very long periods of time.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

LOL CO!!!

You don't seem to be keeping up with Rockwell. From his website news dated Dec 23, 2020:

Sayonara, Nikon

If you believe what you read from random sources on the Internet, Nikon has fallen on such hard times that it can't afford skilled labor in Japan, and instead is going to offshore everything it does to places where less-skilled people will work cheaper.

I upgraded to Canon in 2013. I've only shot Nikon for nostalgia with my manual-focus lenses ever since, for the most part.

If you don't like this news, vote with your feet and upgrade to Canon as I did. Especially in full-frame mirrorless, Canon is a better company with better products, better support and better domestic Japanese manufacturing.

Supposedly Nikon's not going to make anything domestically in Japan anymore, and will be offshoring everything elsewhere, like Thailand or China, by the end of next year. Nikon's been offshoring more and more over the years, which is among the many reasons I upgraded to Canon.

I'm not the only one who feels this way; this is part of the reason the EOS R5 is still sold out and to get one you have to place your order and be patient.

Like many of you I've owned and shot Nikon every day since 1983. I own or have owned and often reviewed everything they've ever made from 1946 through today. I upgraded to pro Nikon in 1983 from Minolta because all of Nikon's AI and AI-s lenses were all made to pro standards, while Canon's FD lenses varied in mechanical quality depending on how expensive they were.

Well, it hasn't been 1983 for a very long time. Nikon fell to second place behind Canon in the 1990s, and to third behind Sony in the 2010s.

Of course I'm still going to review everything they introduce because you people keep asking. Let's face it; digital cameras are disposable so it doesn't really matter how well they're made. Lenses, however, should last a lifetime, which I doubt from the plastic offshores Nikon sells today. Plastic lenses take great pictures, but I have a problem with new-age thinking that accepts that after ten years you throw a lens away.

Here's the thing about making things in China: they should be close to free. If Nikon wants to offshore and pass the savings on to me, that's one thing, but if they prefer to pocket the profit for themselves and try to gyp me with a made-in-Japan price, fugettaboutit. When a Chinese company makes something domestically in China, like the TTArtisan 50mm f/1.4 ASPH I'm reviewing, it sells for less than 10% of the same product made in the first world does, and performs about the same. As at least third generation native New Yorker, I don't like being taken for a ride, being sold offshores for the same price as the real thing. You may not care, but I care where my goodies are made. I wear American-made sneakers and even my Bluetooth headphones are Made in GERMANY.

baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA

I hope my comment did not offend you. I want to preface this post by saying any modern camera system (certainly Canon, Sony and Nikon and others) are all very good and any of these systems can (and do) yield astounding images.

That said, have you ever felt the two cameras (Canon R6 vs Nikon Z6II for example) in your hand side by side?

If you did, you would know that the Nikon build quality is better first hand - you would not need a link. It is apparent in the materials and how they feel. From a specs stand point, Nikon is known to have the best weather sealing in the business - the Z6 II being comparable to the D850 while Canon even states that the R6 has 'lesser' weather sealing than its higher end cameras (R5 etc.) Now keep in mind that the R6 is $500 more than a Z6 II and this is significant.

As far as the lenses, this is a matter of physics - the flange distance is 20% closer on the Z mount than it is on the RF mount meaning that it supports better lens design for edge to edge sharpness. This is indisputable and a matter of optics and physics - please see videos on lens design if you need more information.

Case in point, on The "Art of Photography" channel today (I don't have the link offhand - its easy to look this up), he reviewed the Canon 50mm 1.8 RF lens - and he liked it. However, he noted that it is softer toward the edges and has fairly sever focus breathing. Compare that to the Nikon 50mm 1.8S lens - this lens is so sharp in general and corner to corner that it is often compared to $3000+ Zeiss lenses. Also the Nikon 50mm 1.8 S lens doesn't focus breathe at all so it is an excellent video lens unlike the Canon counterpart.

To be fair, it is more expensive than the Canon - about $300 more, but since the Nikon bodies are somewhat less expensive than the R5 and R6 cameras they are really about the same price wise - except with much better performance from the Nikon lens. In spite of price, this is an apples to apples comparison in that they are both 50mm 1.8 lenses.

Don't get me wrong, in general, the RF lenses are very good and it is the photographer not the gear that makes the shot - especially when you are discussing the RF and Z systems - both being very good.

If you are going to pick straws though, the Nikon is objectively the better mount and it shows in the lens design. Go find reviews (there are many) for the Nikon 14-24 2.8 S or the Nikon 24-70 2.8 S (even Tony Northrup - who is himself a Canon guy states that this is the best 24-70 on the market - look it up), the 70-200 2.8 S is astounding and the new 50 mm 1.2 was reviewed by the guy in Singapore recently (his channel name escapes me) but he is fairly well known so I'm sure you can find it - he indicates that he feels the 50 1.2S is better than the RF version - there are not many comparison reviews out yet between these two lenses as the Nikon is so new, but when there is we will find that it is sharper edge to edge and likely doesn't breathe as much - this is just the trend with Z mount vs RF mount - and some of it is the result of the physics - the Z mount flange is closer to the sensor and this makes it optically superior - no getting around physics.

If you are a Canon guy and are offended or emotionally hurt by these comments, DON'T BE.

In the end, all of this is mostly theoretical as the images you can get with either system are astounding, and in real world usage no clients will ever know the difference.

I only bring these points up because it is annoying to hear about the doom of Nikon and how the Z system is a disappointment as compared to Canon and Sony - nothing could be farther from the truth. Once Nikon get the AF tracking and Eye detect up to Canon and Sony level (which it is very close now - by next year with the Z9 it will be as good) there will literally be no category for stills photography where Nikon is not as good or better than either of those systems objectively.

That said, once again - none of this matters in the real world - all three of these systems are excellent and a good photographer using average gear will out shoot a bad photographer using the best gear every time.

Just want things to be put in proper perspective.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Oh yes, things are pretty clear now ...

baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA

You are hilarious - I would love to see some of your work.
-B

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Easy, just like for all UHH member names, simply click their URL name, then view their topics created, then open any / all Photo Gallery contributions or similar image (rather than opinion) sections within the community.

You'd probably know that already if you'd contributed anything yourself.

pego101

A perfect example of pushing on a rope.